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GWR Class 800

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cambsy

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I’m on the 09.00 Penzance-Paddington 1A82, Mon 29th April, on first day of this service being IET operated, 5 car 802015 Penzance-Plymouth, with another 5 car joining there, thought there might be delay coupling up, but arrived early and within literally couple mins coupled up, very quick, no fuss, couple start and stops, pretty smooth, no harsh jolts, all in all very good and efficient.
 
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Railperf

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So you've just spent 5 hours travelling from Penzance. I don't think you are too bothered about 2 minutes between Reading and Paddington, are you?
Absolutely right. In fact you would rather the train arrive at it booked arrival time or earlier, than have an earlier booked arrival time that is always late!
But I do see the point that all the talk about quicker journey times to/from the West is not materialising in the way many people expected.
My view is that The Paddington Reading stretch is almost oversaturated - and the infrastructure and operational procedures do not currently allow even a smooth following of one train behind another at a 3 minute headway without the second train starting to be checked by signals somewhere en-route!
Then you have the issue of trains even being despatched and moving off right time. Even a minutes delay causes the train 3 mins behind to suffer signal checks very early and extend the running times. If you have some IET's still running in diesel mode from time to time under the wires, then you have another issue to factor in.
But let's face the facts. Electrification was only ever going to deliver marginal time improvements due to the superior acceleration of the 80X's, and maybe slightly lower dwell times -on paper at least.
I would have been more than happy if no journey time improvements had been claimed, but the superior performance of the trains used to recover delay.
As you quite rightly say, a minute here or there saved on a 5 hour journey isn't going to have the traveling public suddenly ditching their cars for the train!
 

II

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A large percentage of the short forms on JourneyCheck are actually no longer short forms, over 15 of them in fact, including:

10:03 Paddington-Penzance, and return 16:00 Penzance to Paddington. Confirmed 10-car (802004/9).
10:56 Cardiff to Paddington and the rest of its diagram of 13:45 Paddington to Swansea and 17:29 Swansea to Paddington, 21:18 Paddington to Oxford, 23:01 Oxford to Paddington. Confirmed 9-car (800316).
11:30 Paddington to Bristol and the rest of its diagram of 14:00 Bristol to Paddington and 16:15 Paddington to Swansea. Confirmed 9-car (802107).
11:01 Oxford to Paddington and the rest of its diagram of 12:21 Paddington to Worcester SH, 15:22 Worcester SH to Paddington, 17:52 Paddington to Worcester SH and 20:59 Worcester FS to Paddington. Confimed 9-car (800320).
12:03 Paddington to Penzance and the return 17:42 Penzance to Paddington. Confirmed 10-car (802003/8).
 

Master29

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I have often wondered whether tilting technology was ever considered for iet`s at any point. I`ve never found any reference to such but that would surely have made a difference on large sections from Reading westwards.
 

swt_passenger

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I have often wondered whether tilting technology was ever considered for iet`s at any point. I`ve never found any reference to such but that would surely have made a difference on large sections from Reading westwards.
Unlikely. I’m sure it’s been pointed out before that only the WCML made any sort of sense.
 

DaveHarries

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I have heard from one source online and another source within the company that Network Rail are looking at implementing a new 110 PSR for all traction (including electric) under the bridge at Steventon as of September this year. I guess that some testing had taken place to indicate what can and what can’t be got away with and that seems to be the upshot. However, nothing I’ve heard is actually official so I can’t 100% guarantee this information is correct. But I believe it.
Would that enable the IETs to run electric or would they still have to switch to Diesel as at present?

Dave
 

Railperf

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I have often wondered whether tilting technology was ever considered for iet`s at any point. I`ve never found any reference to such but that would surely have made a difference on large sections from Reading westwards.
I'm sure tilt could have made a difference - especially when you can run at 10 to 20% faster round severe curvature. But yes, I'm not sure the financial case stacked up, considering the traffic flows. The west coast main line serves Britains busiest cities and one of Scotland's largest cities. So in terms of passenger numbers - the business case made sense.
Probably the biggest improvement to services in and to/from Cornwall is the doubling of capacity that allows more trains to run per hour and reducing the waiting time for the next train. people forget that back in the late 70's and 80's - services may have been slightly faster - but the frequency of trains was much lower. So there has been a trade-off in increasing the frequency and number of places trains stop, with a slight increase in journey times. But it does mean that when you turn up to somewhere like Reading, your overall journey time - including waiting times/ connection times will be lower than before.
 

JN114

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So you've just spent 5 hours travelling from Penzance. I don't think you are too bothered about 2 minutes between Reading and Paddington, are you?

Absolutely right. In fact you would rather the train arrive at it booked arrival time or earlier, than have an earlier booked arrival time that is always late!
But I do see the point that all the talk about quicker journey times to/from the West is not materialising in the way many people expected.
My view is that The Paddington Reading stretch is almost oversaturated - and the infrastructure and operational procedures do not currently allow even a smooth following of one train behind another at a 3 minute headway without the second train starting to be checked by signals somewhere en-route!
Then you have the issue of trains even being despatched and moving off right time. Even a minutes delay causes the train 3 mins behind to suffer signal checks very early and extend the running times. If you have some IET's still running in diesel mode from time to time under the wires, then you have another issue to factor in.
But let's face the facts. Electrification was only ever going to deliver marginal time improvements due to the superior acceleration of the 80X's, and maybe slightly lower dwell times -on paper at least.
I would have been more than happy if no journey time improvements had been claimed, but the superior performance of the trains used to recover delay.
As you quite rightly say, a minute here or there saved on a 5 hour journey isn't going to have the traveling public suddenly ditching their cars for the train!

It’s wildly off-topic here so I posted in the GWR December 2019 TT thread; but to repeat here - the pdfs posted by bnm show the arrival time at Reading. Journey time savings on the West of England route end - end are in the order of 20+ minutes; despite longer dwells at Plymouth for attaching portions.

The suggestion that the West of England route is losing out on the journey time improvements with this timetable is at best laughable; worst deliberately misleading.

But anyway the latest fleet figures for today for IET fleet are:

46 for 49 800s
25 for 26 802s

Still short 2x 5/800, 1x 9/800 and 1x 9/802. It is generally down to displacement from yesterday; and improving through the day as and when extra sets can be brought off.
 

Mojo

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… me too! iPhone is close to unusable when charging on an IET, the touch screen is very jumpy and unresponsive / over-responsive. Seems to be fine to use it while plugged in on a Chiltern 168 (or indeed a refurbed GWR 165!) … ho hum! :)
Sorry to bring up an old point but I’m on one of their new trains now and I’m getting the same issue when charging my iPhone, it does the same on my new XR, my work phone which is a 7 Plus also has the same issue, whereby it’s as if random things are being pressed on the screen, it’s impossible to type a message. I only seem to get the issue when the train is motoring, it’s fine when coasting. 6s seems to work fine.

I’m trying to work out how & when it happens, my westbound journey last week on a train formed of 2x5 car units was fine, this one is a 9 car (will check when I alight if an 800 or an 802) and it’s unusable when the train is motoring.

I’m surprised this hasn’t been brought up very much outside this thread, do they have any plans to fix this?
 
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FGW_DID

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Sorry to bring up an old point but I’m on one of their new trains now and I’m getting the same issue when charging my iPhone, it does the same on my new XR, my work phone which is a 7 Plus also has the same issue, whereby it’s as if random things are being pressed on the screen, it’s impossible to type a message. I only seem to get the issue when the train is motoring, it’s fine when coasting. 6s seems to work fine.

I’m trying to work out how & when it happens, my westbound journey last week on a train formed of 2x5 car units was fine, this one is a 9 car (will check when I alight if an 800 or an 802) and it’s unusable when the train is motoring.

I’m surprised this hasn’t been brought up very much outside this thread, do they have any plans to fix this?

My wife has mentioned the same issue but has mentioned the effect differs depending on where she has been sitting.
 

Adsy125

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Sorry to bring up an old point but I’m on one of their new trains now and I’m getting the same issue when charging my iPhone, it does the same on my new XR, my work phone which is a 7 Plus also has the same issue, whereby it’s as if random things are being pressed on the screen, it’s impossible to type a message. I only seem to get the issue when the train is motoring, it’s fine when coasting. 6s seems to work fine.

I’m trying to work out how & when it happens, my westbound journey last week on a train formed of 2x5 car units was fine, this one is a 9 car (will check when I alight if an 800 or an 802) and it’s unusable when the train is motoring.

I’m surprised this hasn’t been brought up very much outside this thread, do they have any plans to fix this?
It will be that the power supplied is fluctuating, and your charger can't cope to fix it fast enough, unless it's a problem specific to Apple. If it is, good luck getting it solved!
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Sorry to bring up an old point but I’m on one of their new trains now and I’m getting the same issue when charging my iPhone, it does the same on my new XR, my work phone which is a 7 Plus also has the same issue, whereby it’s as if random things are being pressed on the screen, it’s impossible to type a message. I only seem to get the issue when the train is motoring, it’s fine when coasting. 6s seems to work fine.

I’m trying to work out how & when it happens, my westbound journey last week on a train formed of 2x5 car units was fine, this one is a 9 car (will check when I alight if an 800 or an 802) and it’s unusable when the train is motoring.

I’m surprised this hasn’t been brought up very much outside this thread, do they have any plans to fix this?
Oh my god same! I thought my iPhone was broken! When it’s plugged in the whole screen janks up it’s literally unusable.
 

Mag_seven

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… me too! iPhone is close to unusable when charging on an IET, the touch screen is very jumpy and unresponsive / over-responsive. Seems to be fine to use it while plugged in on a Chiltern 168 (or indeed a refurbed GWR 165!) … ho hum! :)

Sorry to bring up an old point but I’m on one of their new trains now and I’m getting the same issue when charging my iPhone, it does the same on my new XR, my work phone which is a 7 Plus also has the same issue, whereby it’s as if random things are being pressed on the screen, it’s impossible to type a message. I only seem to get the issue when the train is motoring, it’s fine when coasting. 6s seems to work fine.

I’m trying to work out how & when it happens, my westbound journey last week on a train formed of 2x5 car units was fine, this one is a 9 car (will check when I alight if an 800 or an 802) and it’s unusable when the train is motoring.

I’m surprised this hasn’t been brought up very much outside this thread, do they have any plans to fix this?

I've noticed that as well on my device - I just assumed it was an issue with my device!
 

Bletchleyite

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I've noticed that as well on my device - I just assumed it was an issue with my device!

It's an issue with pretty much all even vaguely recent Apple devices, in that the touchscreen doesn't work properly if the device is plugged into any unearthed charger, which is most of them except the official Apple ones. Happens to my iPad on my bedside charger which is a generic 2-port one.
 

Mojo

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It's an issue with pretty much all even vaguely recent Apple devices, in that the touchscreen doesn't work properly if the device is plugged into any unearthed charger, which is most of them except the official Apple ones. Happens to my iPad on my bedside charger which is a generic 2-port one.
I only use the official chargers & it only happens on this train.
 

Bletchleyite

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I only use the official chargers & it only happens on this train.

Oh, I assumed you were using their USBs.

In that case that sounds like the train sockets are not normally earthed (I changed that from "properly", as if they're on inverters conventional earthing may not be necessary to be safe, but could still cause this issue). Anyone got a plug tester they could take to confirm if that is the case or not?

Bad earth is something Apple kit (and only Apple kit) is incredibly sensitive to.
 

hassaanhc

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Oh, I assumed you were using their USBs.

In that case that sounds like the train sockets are not normally earthed (I changed that from "properly", as if they're on inverters conventional earthing may not be necessary to be safe, but could still cause this issue). Anyone got a plug tester they could take to confirm if that is the case or not?

Bad earth is something Apple kit (and only Apple kit) is incredibly sensitive to.
My Android phone (OnePlus 3) also struggles when on an electric mode IET, but not when the train is in diesel mode.
 

supervc-10

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Re Apple chargers- I've not been on an IET and don't use an iPhone, but I've just gone and had a look at my iPad charger. It doesn't even have an earth pin! The pin on the plug is metal, but there's no connection for it into the actual transformer block. I'm presuming that it's exactly the same unit as supplied in other countries, where the earth pin isn't a requirement. Certainly US chargers only have 2 pins (live and neutral), and I'm fairly certain the European ones are the same (many older EU plug sockets don't have earth pins).

Edit: I should say, for those who don't use much Apple tech, that the iPad chargers are different to the iPhone ones. They will both charge either device, but the iPad charger is a higher output (12w vs 5w) as otherwise the large battery in the iPad would take too long to fill up.
 

OrangeJuice

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Re Apple chargers- I've not been on an IET and don't use an iPhone, but I've just gone and had a look at my iPad charger. It doesn't even have an earth pin! The pin on the plug is metal, but there's no connection for it into the actual transformer block. I'm presuming that it's exactly the same unit as supplied in other countries, where the earth pin isn't a requirement. Certainly US chargers only have 2 pins (live and neutral), and I'm fairly certain the European ones are the same (many older EU plug sockets don't have earth pins).

Edit: I should say, for those who don't use much Apple tech, that the iPad chargers are different to the iPhone ones. They will both charge either device, but the iPad charger is a higher output (12w vs 5w) as otherwise the large battery in the iPad would take too long to fill up.

My last two android phones have both been supplied with USB to socket 'converters' with no eath pin connection - it's got a bit of plastic that slides out to fit into the eath pin but won't conduct.

Anyway, whilst I haven't had any issues with my current phone when charging, my previous phone would sometimes struggle to type when charging, but would vary as to whether at home or elsewhere. But I haven't been on an 800 charging my phone yet to try it out.

Basically I think I'm trying to say it's not just apple chargers that are like that and I've had similar problems with android phones before
 

supervc-10

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Yup- my Android chargers have plastic earth pins too. I've never noticed weird behaviour while charging with any device TBH- although I can often feel odd 'vibrations' from the 50Hz mains supply on metal devices!
 

Clarence Yard

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One big reason over the sensitivity with the December 2019 timetable is that NR may finally offer something different to what has been currently drafted. For example, there have been issues fitting in other operators services. Those other operators services have existing Track Access rights and the GWR services do not.

So until any offer has been received, I would be keeping a bit quiet too. This is a major recast and putting out duff info won't do anybody any favours.
 

Railperf

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Similarly, these services are shown as departing Reading 24 mins after leaving Padd, 22 1/2 minute timings anyone?
I will reserve judgement when i have seen the confirmed timetable, 22.5 mins is easily achievable if you get a rare clear run into Reading. But as i said before..when a following service is scheduled 3 min behind..that service rarely runs into Reading unchecked. So unless there is a change operationally..we wait with interest to see how all outbound services can achieve a reliable 22.5 min timing. It will be great if they can!
 

S-Bahn

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I just carry a battery pack. I've only ever used the sockets for the laptop which requires mains rather than USB.

weirdly enough my phone has had major issues when plugged into a Class 800 power socket. Touchscreen goes mad and phone has to be unplugged and restarted. Happens every trip, regardless of the transformer plug I use.
 

CharlesR

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weirdly enough my phone has had major issues when plugged into a Class 800 power socket. Touchscreen goes mad and phone has to be unplugged and restarted. Happens every trip, regardless of the transformer plug I use.
It’s on electric power it glitches, and it seems to only be iPhones, well if was on my 7. Haven’t tried it on my XR.
 
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