GWR Cornish Night Riviera Sleeper and GWR Class 57 updates from Long Rock

[trebor79]

Sounds like they wanted to get the defective set back to Penzance. If I've understood correctly, the up passengers got decanted onto the down sleeper which then returned to Paddington, and the down passengers ended up on the IET.
Must have been a problem that only manifested itself after departure.

 

[JN114]

The down was an IET throughout.
The “failed” sleeper stock for the down went ECS from London to Penzance following the IET. At Bristol the second loco was detached off the empty stock on the down, and attached to the rear of the up - normally done at Reading, with a night turn driver babysitting the loco; but this driver was used to drive the ECS to Exeter instead.

No passengers were turfed off the up in the middle of the night.

 

[hwl]

Somebody said they were owned by GWR, seems unlikely though

They aren't.
57s were a Porterbrook conversion project and were all owned by PB with some having been sold to DRS or West Coast Rail.

 

[trebor79]

The down was an IET throughout.
The “failed” sleeper stock for the down went ECS from London to Penzance following the IET. At Bristol the second loco was detached off the empty stock on the down, and attached to the rear of the up - normally done at Reading, with a night turn driver babysitting the loco; but this driver was used to drive the ECS to Exeter instead.

No passengers were turfed off the up in the middle of the night.

Ah that makes sense. What happens in situations like this - are the passengers offered the option of a hotel and ticket on the first train the follwoing morning, or just expected to grin and bear it with a refund of the berth supplement?

 

[JB_B]

What is the on-board environment like when an IET substitutes for the sleeper? Is the lighting dimmed? Is there any catering - I'm guessing not?

 

[JN114]

Ah that makes sense. What happens in situations like this - are the passengers offered the option of a hotel and ticket on the first train the follwoing morning, or just expected to grin and bear it with a refund of the berth supplement?

Offered hotel and travel following day (normally during the day), or compensation for lack of berth provision.

 

[Tony43]

I'd be shocked if new locos aren't included in the next DA / franchise. 57s are a liability and getting worse. Shame, as I enjoy driving them but I just can't see them continuing longer term.

can a few hst power cars be modified for use with the sleeper stock or would that cause other problems

 

[83G/84D]

can a few hst power cars be modified for use with the sleeper stock or would that cause other problems

I think this has been discussed several times before but can’t find the conversation. Before the post was deleted ‘co-tr-paul’ said the 57’s are here to stay.

 

[83G/84D]

Ah that makes sense. What happens in situations like this - are the passengers offered the option of a hotel and ticket on the first train the follwoing morning, or just expected to grin and bear it with a refund of the berth supplement?

In the past in the event of severe late running on the up service, hotels have been offered as have taxis for any people with flights from Gatwick or Heathrow.

 

[Energy]

With the reliability seeming to have rapidly declined I think GWR could be thinkings of letting the 57s go, as they don't own them they can just not renew them, it's just finding new units to take over.

 

[TractiveEffort]

can a few hst power cars be modified for use with the sleeper stock or would that cause other problems

It’s sleeper stock that would need modifying to use with power cars, it was looked at and dismissed.

 

[Energy]

It’s sleeper stock that would need modifying to use with power cars, it was looked at and dismissed.

Also as the mk3s only have so much life left so I doubt the owner will want to be changing the electrics so they work with HST power cars.

 

[Clansman]

can a few hst power cars be modified for use with the sleeper stock or would that cause other problems

Doing so would create more problems that don't exist.

 

[pdeaves]

Doing so would create more problems that don't exist.

Well, the 'obvious' answer would be to keep the Mk3s the same and modify the power cars.

(note, not a serious suggestion)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, the 'obvious' answer would be to keep the Mk3s the same and modify the power cars.

(note, not a serious suggestion)

If it was done a motor-alternator set in the van area of the power car would be the way to do it. But with plenty of locomotive options out there it's probably fairly pointless.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Sorry but its a long thread now but both the HST and 67 options have already been reasoned why in this thread already. I can't tell you why it was substituted today as I am off but it was coaching stock not loco fault so I'm led to believe. We are now undergoing a programme of bogie refurb and wheel set refurb so as mentioned recently if you scroll back a page or so, we are 1 down along with ongoing faults with 604 means the fleet is highly stretched. Its not ideal but until the long term options are all identified re electrification, franchise length, finance, new stock, etc are all clear, then the 57 option has been proven to be the best. Personally speaking, yes we could do with 1 or 2 more but I try to keep this thread to the facts on what and why things are happening.
As mentioned above, nobody was detrained and yes, everybody involved gets all the available options re onward transport or hotels and re-embersment

 

[co-tr-paul]

603 almost ready to be put back together.

 

[83G/84D]

Down sleeper service this morning encountered difficulties in Dainton area. Train was sent back to Newton Abbot and terminated there.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Down sleeper service this morning encountered difficulties in Dainton area. Train was sent back to Newton Abbot and terminated there.

Rail conditions.

 

[PHILIPE]

Rail conditions.

RTT shows reason for termination as "Due to being Autumn"

 

[pdeaves]

RTT shows reason for termination as "Due to being Autumn"

In case anyone is unaware, that will be the site owner's interpretation of the standard code sent out from the industry systems, not the 'official' definition.

 

[PHILIPE]

In case anyone is unaware, that will be the site owner's interpretation of the standard code sent out from the industry systems, not the 'official' definition.

Well the leaves fall in the Autumn but still interpretation. ECS later ran from Newton Abbot to Penzance.strange

 

[bastien]

If it was done a motor-alternator set in the van area of the power car would be the way to do it. But with plenty of locomotive options out there it's probably fairly pointless.

Use a generator van.

 

[83G/84D]

Rail conditions.

Not having a dig at the 57’s but the rails were examined and found to be just wet with no contamination. No other trains reported any issues.

 

[Energy]

Wonder why the 57s are suddenly having a burst of problems? Could we see a short lease of 67s/68s until the 57s are more reliable? And the 57s may never come back...

 

[co-tr-paul]

I know its a long thread but the facts and reasons why for no 43/67/68s are posted previously.

 

[Energy]

I know its a long thread but the facts and reasons why for no 43/67/68s are posted previously.

I remember the reason for 43s was that the electrical system was too different, what are the reasons against 67/68s? Chiltern have used both for loco hauled mk3s...

 

[co-tr-paul]

DBS wanted to use their own drivers for one. Spares stock, tools, fitter compitance, driver compitance , finance, lack of long term franchise and politics.....

 

[Energy]

DBS wanted to use their own drivers for one. Spares stock, tools, fitter compitance, driver compitance , finance, lack of long term franchise and politics.....

What about the 67s? Looking at the 57s right now something should be done...

 

[43096]

DBS wanted to use their own drivers for one.

That doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny: DB have been perfectly happy to hire locos out to other operators (e.g. TfW, LNER, Anglia) that aren't crewed by DB. Sounds rather like someone making an excuse up.

The thing is, the sleeper operation is very oddball in comparison with the rest of the GWR operation and really lends itself to contracting out traction supply to an organisation that has more resources to support it. So, someone like DB Cargo........

Yes it means change and possibly changing crewing etc. But ultimately it is the service to the punter that matters and the internal politics around such changes just show what the railway is best at - disappearing up its own fundamental orifice.