GWR Cornish Night Riviera Sleeper and GWR Class 57 updates from Long Rock

[Ashley Hill]

Nothing obvious but it's a regular occurrence at PZ. I'd imagine it's a competency issue at PAD.

 

[superjohn]

Any reason why propelling can’t happen at Paddington?

A shunter (the person type) would be required and I doubt there are any based at Paddington these days.

Some time ago (at least 10 years) I was travelling on the sleeper from Paddington. A brake problem was identified on the loco before departure and it was necessary to shunt the train out of the platform in order to release the ecs loco so it could be used instead. A shunter had to come from Old Oak Common by taxi to conduct the propelling movement back into the platform. The passengers all had to disembark while this took place, this wasn’t popular as it was close to midnight and many were in bed! The first class lounge was opened to accommodate them.

 

[fgwrich]

A shunter (the person type) would be required and I doubt there are any based at Paddington these days.

Some time ago (at least 10 years) I was travelling on the sleeper from Paddington. A brake problem was identified on the loco before departure and it was necessary to shunt the train out of the platform in order to release the ecs loco so it could be used instead. A shunter had to come from Old Oak Common by taxi to conduct the propelling movement back into the platform. The passengers all had to disembark while this took place, this wasn’t popular as it was close to midnight and many were in bed! The first class lounge was opened to accommodate them.

And I suppose that’s the problem. Do you find and bring down a competent shunter down to Paddington in the morning, or take the cheap and easy option of cancelling the service at Didcot and turf the passengers out onto an early morning 387 or 80X. At least Reading would allow for a slightly better passenger experience.

 

[FGW_DID]

57310 came down to Reading TCD from Derby today:

Realtime Trains - 050D 1002 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Reading Traincare Depot

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It is planned for tonight’s Pilot Loco: 5C50/1C50/0C50 > RTCD

1A50 is TnT tonight (57306 leading, 57604 trailing)

 

[co-tr-paul]

603.on down
602 still awaiting parts from outside contractor.
605 still stopped pz.

 

[spark001uk]

57310 came down to Reading TCD from Derby today:

Realtime Trains - 050D 1002 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Reading Traincare Depot

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It is planned for tonight’s Pilot Loco: 5C50/1C50/0C50 > RTCD

1A50 is TnT tonight (57306 leading, 57604 trailing)

Yep, 57310 has indeed been borrowed from ROG, it's tagged on the back of 1C50.

 

[Ashley Hill]

As of today it will be to and fro PAD as booked. The Didcot issue came about because of blocking a platform at Reading for either a lie-in for the passengers or running round. Reading depot supplies the shunters but all Exeter TMs are qualified to perform if required.

 

[47827]

but all Exeter TMs are qualified to perform if required.

Yes. Nearly 20 years ago I watched one having to do said task in deepest Cornwall. And the laying of detonators for the approaching rescue engine. It is typically emergency situations only though. I would fully expect the railway powers in charge these days to say no on performing the task simply to avoid the sleeper being cancelled at somewhere like Didcot so it could at least make the more useful stop at Reading.

 

[irish_rail]

Yes. Nearly 20 years ago I watched one having to do said task in deepest Cornwall. And the laying of detonators for the approaching rescue engine. It is typically emergency situations only though. I would fully expect the railway powers in charge these days to say no on performing the task simply to avoid the sleeper being cancelled at somewhere like Didcot so it could at least make the more useful stop at Reading.

Exeter TMs frequently do the uncoupling etc at Exeter on a Monday morning when the train runs via the southern.

 

[47827]

Exeter TMs frequently do the uncoupling etc at Exeter on a Monday morning when the train runs via the southern.

Knew that happened years ago but had thought a few shunting trained staff on the station had existed in later years as that would be the drill elsewhere. Interesting it's carried on as generally its frowned upon these days for guards to still do that in anything other than emergencies. Caledonian sleeper and charter operations are the exceptions I could think of.

 

[Sleepy]

Knew that happened years ago but had thought a few shunting trained staff on the station had existed in later years as that would be the drill elsewhere. Interesting it's carried on as generally its frowned upon these days for guards to still do that in anything other than emergencies. Caledonian sleeper and charter operations are the exceptions I could think of.

Would expect GWR guards that have Sleeper working in their diagrams at any depot to be competant.

 

[DannyMich2018]

If I'm right 3 locos are required for the Night sleeper, 1 for each sleeper and 1 for the ECS out of Paddington. That's 75pc availability out of 4 57s. With one or two hired in addition this means low availability of the 57s. Is it time for a replacement? Plenty of 67s and 68s hanging around doing nothing.

 

[47827]

Would expect GWR guards that have Sleeper working in their diagrams at any depot to be competant.

Generally as a rule every single guard working with conventional stock, such as the mk3s on GW has to be trained. It's just not a procedure that most companies like to ask crews to undertake these days and unions certainly don't like it either. With the exception of where the practice is carried over and been kept going, evidently such as staff at Exeter GW HSS and Caledonian Sleeper.

 

[Ashley Hill]

and unions certainly don't like it either.

What is there for the unions not to like? Their recently published Traincrew Charter asks that all guards should have operational knowledge of the trains they work. Guards performing shunting work surely falls within this requirement.

 

[47827]

What is there for the unions not to like? Their recently published Traincrew Charter asks that all guards should have operational knowledge of the trains they work. Guards performing shunting work surely falls within this requirement.

I'm not on about retaining competency. It is more to do with them being "expected" to do it on normal shifts, aside from those companies and related depots that have it is a normal part of their duties when working with that rolling stock. In the past there have been instances where loco hauled trains were being drafted in with subsequent demands for greater pay if extra shunting was to be expected of staff used to working with other types of train. I'm pleased that a tiny number of guards still have this as a normal working practice, even if only occasionally (and not just in emergencies).

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If I'm right 3 locos are required for the Night sleeper, 1 for each sleeper and 1 for the ECS out of Paddington. That's 75pc availability out of 4 57s. With one or two hired in addition this means low availability of the 57s. Is it time for a replacement? Plenty of 67s and 68s hanging around doing nothing.

However there aren’t crew sitting around doing nothing to do training courses for new locos. There’s enough of a backlog in the training school without training drivers and maintenance staff on new traction!

 

[co-tr-paul]

Read previous pages and pages on why no other traction will be used for a good while yet.

 

[DannyMich2018]

However there aren’t crew sitting around doing nothing to do training courses for new locos. There’s enough of a backlog in the training school without training drivers and maintenance staff on new traction!

Yes I know and appreciate that thanks. However the time will come for replacement eventually. I presume ideally you'd replace the mk3s and locos at the same time maybe not CAF though!

 

[co-tr-paul]

Understand it was in early planning stage for new coaching stock and traction change to be part of the next long term franchise commitment. Obviously that is now not happening ! Current refurbishment was designed to last 10 years max and we are already well into year 3.
Edit. Sep 3018 !

 

[Bletchleyite]

Understand it was in early planning stage for new coaching stock and traction change to be part of the next long term franchise commitment. Obviously that is now not happening ! Current refurbishment was designed to last 10 years max and we are already well into year 3.

I wonder if it can be dragged out a bit further to see what effect HS2 has on the Cally? If HS2 kills the Lowlander that'd be enough spare coaches for GWR to take on.

 

[trebor79]

Understand it was in early planning stage for new coaching stock and traction change to be part of the next long term franchise commitment. Obviously that is now not happening ! Current refurbishment was designed to last 10 years max and we are already well into year 3.
Edit. Sep 3018 !

Appreciate as a passenger I don't know what's underneath the surface, but I was incredibly impressed with the refurbished stock. The cabins are much more comfortable than the CS stock, and the buffet/lounge car was internally unrecognisable as a Mk3 except for the ceiling profile.

 

[Horizon22]

If I'm right 3 locos are required for the Night sleeper, 1 for each sleeper and 1 for the ECS out of Paddington. That's 75pc availability out of 4 57s. With one or two hired in addition this means low availability of the 57s. Is it time for a replacement? Plenty of 67s and 68s hanging around doing nothing.

Loco availability hasn't been an issue at any time the rest of the year. Unfortunately there were several unforseen faults at the same time.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Loco availability hasn't been an issue at any time the rest of the year. Unfortunately there were several unforseen faults at the same time.

Let's hope they are fixed soon then. No doubt loadings will pick up over the summer too.

 

[popeter45]

what other traction can they subsitute if needed?
for the paddinton-reading top and tail could they use a 66 with the 57 still providing ETS?

 

[_toommm_]

what other traction can they subsitute if needed?
for the paddinton-reading top and tail could they use a 66 with the 57 still providing ETS?

The drivers aren’t trained on 66s so they can’t. The sleeper is driven by GWRs own drivers.

 

[43096]

what other traction can they subsitute if needed?
for the paddinton-reading top and tail could they use a 66 with the 57 still providing ETS?

Do what they've already done and hire in 57s from other operators.

 

[43 302]

57310 reportedly on the down tonight.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Oh no.....

 

[43 302]

Oh no.....

Dud gen? I hope not as it's required!

 

[FGW_DID]

Dud gen? I hope not as it's required!

57603 (Up 1A50)
57310 (Down 1C50)
57605 (Pilot)

57602 & 604: Stopped @ PZ
57306: Spare @ RG