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GWR Dec 19 timetable

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Kite159

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Looks like the connection at Basingstoke for a Reading shuttle from a Salisbury train has been gone, as it's XX:25 & XX:55. Using 3 units rather than the current 2 should improve time keeping, although does mean for me more Voyager mileage when I want to go towards Reading :(
 
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LordCreed

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...with a new 22.50 to Worcestershire Parkway (though it then runs empty stock direct to the Shrub Hill sidings... I suppose it's meant to save on a bit of late-night shunting).

I can't remember 100%, but believe it falls foul of a possession if it goes into the station.
 

Bikeman78

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Don’t worry about following me, I’ll be gone :lol:

I’m sure it’s been the South Wales services that have followed the Slough stoppers on the up for a while.
Yes the South Wales trains have followed the up Oxfords from Reading for at least a deacade, probably longer as I lost track of time. Often they get clobbered at Airport Jn as well. It's definitely someone else's turn.
 

Bikeman78

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A quick summary of what's on RTT for Jan 2020 in terms of main line departures from Paddington, then:

Off-peak departures on the Main lines:
xx34 Newbury / xx36 Exeter St Davids (alternate hours)

The xx15 and xx45 will presumably be introduced during the timetable period.
Generally the xx02 and xx32 call at Didcot and the xx18 and xx48 do not.

That pattern persists through the evening peak with the following exceptions and additions:
xx15 diverts to Swansea, still first stop Bristol Parkway
xx42 additional 387 to Didcot, calling Reading and Didcot only (uses the Festival Line to gain Down Relief after Reading)

Some opportunities to have a 387 non stop to Reading. Interesting that very few Cardiff trains will call at Didcot but I'm not complaining. Also the 1615 will be available with off peak tickets so a chance to travel to Cardiff on a fast train. The last time I went non stop to Bristol Pakrway was before the Hatfield derailment.
 

Bikeman78

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There doesn't appear to be any 12 cars running between Didcot & Paddington that only stop at Reading.
There is only one 12 car that runs non stop between Paddington & Reading which is the 08.38 Paddington - Newbury:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94393/2020/01/15/advanced
(Detaches portions at Reading)

The stopping pattern for the others would appear to be all intermediate stations between Didcot / Reading & only Maidenhead & Twyford between Reading / Paddington
I note the Heathrow Express will only need four sets of stock with the reduced turn round times as Paddington. Will some of these be 12 car? 12 units for eight diagrams is rather generous. What chance of a HEX unit chucking out on a GWR service when the need arises?
 

swt_passenger

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I note the Heathrow Express will only need four sets of stock with the reduced turn round times as Paddington. Will some of these be 12 car? 12 units for eight diagrams is rather generous. What chance of a HEX unit chucking out on a GWR service when the need arises?
The Heathrow CTA and T4 station platforms are only around 200m, T5 is the longest at an unusual 217m.
 

HamworthyGoods

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I note the Heathrow Express will only need four sets of stock with the reduced turn round times as Paddington. Will some of these be 12 car? 12 units for eight diagrams is rather generous. What chance of a HEX unit chucking out on a GWR service when the need arises?

HEX is still 5 sets of stock it’s simply the long turnaround moves from Paddington to Heathrow
 

Bikeman78

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Bikeman78

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Looks like the connection at Basingstoke for a Reading shuttle from a Salisbury train has been gone, as it's XX:25 & XX:55. Using 3 units rather than the current 2 should improve time keeping, although does mean for me more Voyager mileage when I want to go towards Reading :(
Two units has always been rather heroic. Fine on a dry sunny day but no good in autumn. I guess they used three units when it was DEMUs in the early 1990s.
 

si404

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Doesn't HEx have a policy of there always being a train in platform at Paddington and T5? Meaning 15+ minutes turn around. Though if they lose a Paddington platform then they obviously can't do that!
 

didcotdean

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Interesting that very few Cardiff trains will call at Didcot but I'm not complaining.
Except at the weekends, when the Cardiff service stops hourly and the Swansea at the ends of the day.

Not regularly stopping the Cardiffs on weekdays except at the ends of a day and a few on peak is a change from all the indicative stopping plans published over the years for this timetable change and is a backward step in my view for connectivity not just to/from Didcot itself but also for Oxford.
 

si404

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The Wales calls at Didcot have been changed for Bristol ones. It's one of those swap changes where some journeys win, some journeys lose.
 

kevin_roche

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Looks like the connection at Basingstoke for a Reading shuttle from a Salisbury train has been gone, as it's XX:25 & XX:55. Using 3 units rather than the current 2 should improve time keeping, although does mean for me more Voyager mileage when I want to go towards Reading :(

They all take a little longer in the new timetable. I expect they are adding a couple of minutes so that there is time to stop at Green Park once that opens in 2020.
 

800002

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The Heathrow CTA and T4 station platforms are only around 200m, T5 is the longest at an unusual 217m.
4 Car Cl.387 is 80.77 meters (81 for simplicity) / 8 cars is 162 m / 12 cars is 243 - for a comparison to the platform lengths
 

800002

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Though if they lose a Paddington platform then they obviously can't do that!
Sorry to be pedantic - but. They've not 'lost' the platform - they have agreed to temporarily use a single platform at pad.
'temp' having the meaning of 12 Months.
 

800002

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Surely this is no different to the way that the Highland Sleeper (or anything that changes traction on route is set up).

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G65065/2019/08/06/advanced

doesn't use 125mph locomotive hauled timings all the way from Inverness to Euston (not obvious why it uses that in the first place) - likewise there is presumably a switch in SRTs at the diesel / electric changeover point - I'd imagine that RTT or maybe the feed itself is only shown to set up the first traction type in the timing set up.

Bingo we have a winner.

Of course - How silly of me. Sorry for overlooking that!
I see now the Cardiff starters are Electric Timing Load and the Swansea starters are Diesel (with a change en route at Cardiff, to Electric).

On that note - i also see now, all (well certainly majority) of the schedules Up and Down have Timing load changes at Didcot Parkway and Wantage Road.
Up:- To Diesel at Wantage Road: back to Electric at Didcot
Down:- To Diesel at Didcot; back to Electric at Wantage Road.
I imagine this is for the bridge issue between the two points (discussed on the other thread(s) somewhere).
 

JN114

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On that note - i also see now, all (well certainly majority) of the schedules Up and Down have Timing load changes at Didcot Parkway and Wantage Road.
Up:- To Diesel at Wantage Road: back to Electric at Didcot
Down:- To Diesel at Didcot; back to Electric at Wantage Road.
I imagine this is for the bridge issue between the two points (discussed on the other thread(s) somewhere).

Yep. There is a solution to the bridge issue proposed; but some very rigorous dynamic testing has to take place first. Mid-late August there are some progressively faster runs with 387s pencilled in to validate the OHLE under the bridge for much higher speed running on electric. If they’re successful the plan is to do some tests with an IET with suitable software changes to ignore the balises on both approaches to the bridge that force the pantograph to drop; to confirm that under the bridge is also good for high speed IET running.

If all is well with the testing we should see the linespeed raise to EMU110/125 (from EMU60/125), maybe towards the end of the year. It is considered a “key infrastructure enhancement” to be implemented before Dec 2019 TT.
 

800002

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Yep. There is a solution to the bridge issue proposed; but some very rigorous dynamic testing has to take place first. Mid-late August there are some progressively faster runs with 387s pencilled in to validate the OHLE under the bridge for much higher speed running on electric. If they’re successful the plan is to do some tests with an IET with suitable software changes to ignore the balises on both approaches to the bridge that force the pantograph to drop; to confirm that under the bridge is also good for high speed IET running.

If all is well with the testing we should see the linespeed raise to EMU110/125 (from EMU60/125), maybe towards the end of the year. It is considered a “key infrastructure enhancement” to be implemented before Dec 2019 TT.
Yes - I kind of following that conversation but lost track of it recently. Thanks for taking the time to put the info down for me.
That is encouraging news, regarding the dynamic testing.
I guess to a certain degree, the timetable has to be planned on a 'worse case scenario' with this particular speed bump.
The differential will surely be in the seconds, rather than minutes though if the electric running doesn't go ahead? Obviously fairly severe differential for the 387's! ;)

The 387's - They haven't any paths planned (yet) for west of Didcot, have they? (except to the West End).

Any other 'Key infrastructure enhancements' which could affect the Dec 19 TT, as described in the Open Data feeds?
 

si404

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Sorry to be pedantic - but. They've not 'lost' the platform - they have agreed to temporarily use a single platform at pad.
'temp' having the meaning of 12 Months.
well yes, I guess so. December timetable has Hex arriving 6-8 minutes before leaving again at Paddington due to the single platform. This is much less than now - the Hex train currently in platform 6 was meant to arrive at 34 past and will leave at 55 past - timetables for 21 minutes. This will become a 6 minute turn round as it has to leave 15 minutes earlier as there won't be space for two HEx trains until the lilac Liz line low level platforms open to trains from the west.
 

800002

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well yes, I guess so. December timetable has Hex arriving 6-8 minutes before leaving again at Paddington due to the single platform. This is much less than now - the Hex train currently in platform 6 was meant to arrive at 34 past and will leave at 55 past - timetables for 21 minutes. This will become a 6 minute turn round as it has to leave 15 minutes earlier as there won't be space for two HEx trains until the lilac Liz line low level platforms open to trains from the west.

Yeah, I believe we had a little conversation on this topic when the HEX schedules came online.
there won't be space for two HEx trains until the lilac Liz line low level platforms open to trains from the west.
This is the important bit! The agreement alluded to the document I posted earlier is for 12 months till Dec 2020. One assumes It can be extended in the event (possibly inevitable event) that the core into Pad Low Level is not open. (the latest estimate I recall hearing is sometime between December 2020 and March 2021 for the core to open - but happy to have my knowledge refreshed) .

PS, nice alliteration :D
 

irish_rail

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well yes, I guess so. December timetable has Hex arriving 6-8 minutes before leaving again at Paddington due to the single platform. This is much less than now - the Hex train currently in platform 6 was meant to arrive at 34 past and will leave at 55 past - timetables for 21 minutes. This will become a 6 minute turn round as it has to leave 15 minutes earlier as there won't be space for two HEx trains until the lilac Liz line low level platforms open to trains from the west.
Again, I just can't see this working. The minute a HEX arrives a few minutes late it is guaranteed to depart late and thus get in the way of GWR services departing after with further knock on delays. The more I see of this 2019 timetable, the more I'm convinced it is never going to work. I see operation princess mk2.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Are HEX planning driver changes at Paddington in a similar vein to the tube at terminal stations? If so that's a partial mitigation against at least minor delays to the service. Anything beyond 5 mins late will likely require cancellations.
 

cle

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Could Didcot not have one Cardiff and one Bristol per hour? I know it wouldn't be clock-face 00/30 style to and from London, but don't the Cheltenham and potential fast Oxford calls or London-Reading-Didcot shuttles balance it out to a decent enough frequency?
 

si404

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PS, nice alliteration :D
well Lilac Liz line is just better than "Cross Liz #PurpleTrain", etc and so I just call it that as "Elizabeth line" draws occasional negative comments. Low level being right there for the taking was a bonus.
 

si404

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Could Didcot not have one Cardiff and one Bristol per hour? I know it wouldn't be clock-face 00/30 style to and from London, but don't the Cheltenham and potential fast Oxford calls or London-Reading-Didcot shuttles balance it out to a decent enough frequency?
yes. Three fast off-peak Didcot calls in the timetable and two are right on top of each other - literally consecutive trains on the mains. XX:02, XX:28, XX:32 is what they propose (Padd departures), but XX:02, XX:28, XX:48 (swap the Bristol for a Cardiff) would be better for Didcot.

But, at the same time, having a consistent half-hourly service pattern with the same stops (other than two trains in the PM peak where there's a minute change of time, and that 4 down trains extend beyond Bristol) via Bath is also a good thing.
 

Ianno87

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yes. Three fast off-peak Didcot calls in the timetable and two are right on top of each other - literally consecutive trains on the mains. XX:02, XX:28, XX:32 is what they propose (Padd departures), but XX:02, XX:28, XX:48 (swap the Bristol for a Cardiff) would be better for Didcot.

But, at the same time, having a consistent half-hourly service pattern with the same stops (other than two trains in the PM peak where there's a minute change of time, and that 4 down trains extend beyond Bristol) via Bath is also a good thing.

Plus, given the new Bristol fasts (thus taking end to end demand), makes sense to fill up the 'slow' Bristols with stops.

Plus Didcot (and, by connection, Oxford) to Bristol must be a market worthy of serving with a direct train.
 

30907

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Could Didcot not have one Cardiff and one Bristol per hour? I know it wouldn't be clock-face 00/30 style to and from London, but don't the Cheltenham and potential fast Oxford calls or London-Reading-Didcot shuttles balance it out to a decent enough frequency?
That's the pattern reported by Modern Railways this month - obviously overtaken by events, but I wonder why the change had to be made, and made so recently?
 
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