GWR eTicket BoJ restriction

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by ess, 13 Jun 2019 at 18:21.

  1. ess

    ess Member

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    I bought an Anytime Day Rtn from Maidenhead to Paddington as a mobile phone eTicket. I see it states on the eTicket that break of journey is NOT allowed. Is that a new restriction brought in with the eTicket or do paper tickets also restrict BoJ?
     
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  3. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It's wrong and GWR know it is. BoJ is permitted.
     
  4. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    The purported restriction is entirely ineffectual, since one is told the precise opposite before purchasing the ticket. GWR cannot simply change the terms of the contract after it has been made.

    All Anytime Day Returns permit break of journey on both legs so it is quite clear the e-ticket is misleading you.
     
  5. mikeg

    mikeg Member

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    This appears on many tpe etickets too. I don't believe it's entirely in line with either the nrcot or the TSA. As it's an anytime break of journey should always be permitted. I would say it's unenforceable but they may try to enforce it. Another reason to boycott e-tickets.
     
  6. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    It is - not only does it contravene the fundamental terms of an Anytime ticket, but it is also the exact opposite of the right one has been explicitly granted just 2 minutes earlier before paying!

    They certainly might attempt to excess you to the cheapest valid walk-up fare that permits BoJ. I wonder what that might be :lol:

    Well, for me a bigger issue is the fact that these tickets aren't even e-tickets at all. They're m-tickets marauding as e-tickets, since they can only be displayed within the selected app, and not viewed as a PDF, printed etc.
     
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Eh? GWR issue proper e-tickets. As well as having it in the app, you get the PDF on the confirmation email.

    They need to change this to say "SEE RESTRICTIONS". It's been like that for months and I don't get why it isn't getting fixed.
     
  8. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Certainly not been the case with tickets bought through the FirstGroup app, at least as far back as a few months ago.
     
  9. alistairlees

    alistairlees Member

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    That is not correct. An eTicket is not tied to an app if it correctly follows the RSP standards. The pkpass (the form the part that is not the pdf comes in) can be downloaded to apple wallet, shared or just displayed via email in a correct implementation.
     
  10. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Erm, I don't believe I said anything conflicting with that?

    If you buy an e-ticket from GWR's app, which I have done, you get an email with a PDF attached (and possibly also a pkpass, I forget) and you get it in the app in the same format as the PDF too.

    LNR's one is the quirk, you buy an e-ticket and get it by e-mail, but it also appears in the app as a fake m-ticket that still requires activation but doesn't in my understanding affect the validity of the PDF version regardless of what you do with it (and is still technically valid even if not activated).
     
  11. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    Incorrect validities, inconsistent application, confusion between e and m tickets and whether or not it needs validation, problems with BoJ (especially overnight) - none of the above is encouraging me to use e or m tickets! I shall continue to boycott them until they have been properly and consistently implemented.
     
  12. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    A sensible choice. Given that the data doesn't exist in machine readable form to determine BoJ restriction on a given ticket (it's only in the text restriction), I have no idea why this field was even put on there, or if it was it should have said "see restriction NN". Putting it on in the way it was done was just grossly incompetent.
     
  13. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

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    It does exist, but it's done on a per-ticket-type basis. The data assumes the break of journey restriction on a given fare will always depend on the ticket type and always be either present or absent, not variable and determined by the restriction code. FWIW, BR Fares now displays any break of journey restrictions by ticket type in the default display mode (i.e. not expert mode) and on the fare details page under the "Validity" heading.
     
  14. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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  15. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

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  16. WelshBluebird

    WelshBluebird Established Member

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    This has been known for ages and GWR are also aware of it. No idea why it hasn't been fixed yet.

    No you don't, unless they have changed it within the last month (as I have switched to using the Trainline app for the circumstances where I want an e-ticket, for which they don't charge a booking fee and do actually send you an email with the ticket as an attachment).

    You do not get a pdf or pkpass, all you get is the "ticket" as scanable barcode in the app. Nothing else.
    It is an "e-ticket" in that you don't have to activate, but it isn't one in that it is restricted to just being used in the app.
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    No, they don't. All walk-up fares allow break of journey by default unless the restriction code changes it. Only Advances prohibit it as a general thing.

    Edit: Oh, I see, LNR (LM) have created a new type OPR which is a Super Off Peak Return which bars it generally (in contravention of the standard "post simplification" ticket type set). Bizarre as to why they have done that and not simply used SSR like everyone else does.
     
    Last edited: 14 Jun 2019 at 13:47
  18. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    The ex-London Midland only fares have been this way for a very long time, and I think in all likelihood since their introduction. It makes perfect sense to me - customers don't see any difference in the standards-compliant ticket name, but it enables more poorly coded retail systems to display the break of journey restrictions.
     
  19. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Presumably it's in the restriction as well so it is not missed by anyone who would, as per documentation, only refer to there.

    I must admit that this "simplification" was rather less than helpful in the end. They should probably just have left it as a standard "no BoJ on the outward of restricted walk-up fares, always allowed on the return" as BR had it.
     
  20. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Are you allowed to load it up in the app, take a screenshot, and then use the screenshot instead of the app during inspection?
     
  21. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    When I have bought e-tickets on GWR this has categorically not been the case. I have received both an entry in the app and an email with a PDF. Are you sure you haven't been losing the email to a spam filter or similar?
     
  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    As you can present an e-ticket in any form (provided the barcode can be scanned) I don't see why you couldn't do that.
     
  23. WelshBluebird

    WelshBluebird Established Member

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    Who knows!

    Absolutely totally sure. I've been using the app based tickets from GWR for as long as they have rolled them out to a wider audience about a year ago and they have never provided emails apart from a confirmation that doesn't have anything like that attached (the most you get is an attached calendar entry!). I can upload one of those emails if you'd like!

    Even GWR themselves say you have to use the app rather than any other means and when it was first rolled out they advertised them specifically as mobile app tickets.

    I'm not sure what you are referencing, maybe it is GWR tickets through another app like the Train line who do provide the tickets in emails etc, or maybe the GWR scheme was different before they rolled it out properly last year, but currently right now if you buy a ticket on the GWR site or app, you can only get a paper ticket or an ticket locked within the GWR app.
     
    Last edited: 15 Jun 2019 at 19:00
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    OK, so I was intrigued enough to spend 150 of your earth pennies on a single from Stapleton Road to Lawrence Hill (in retrospect, should have gone for a child ticket given that I have no intention of actually using it!) and you are correct, you don't get an email with an attachment. I must indeed be thinking of a different TOC.

    Bizarre.

    Anyone going from Stapleton Road to Lawrence Hill today and needs a ticket? :D :D :D

    And much as you'd have a job actually doing so given that the stations are next to each other, it too has the incorrect statement that BoJ is not permitted.
     
    Last edited: 15 Jun 2019 at 23:01
  25. FenMan

    FenMan Member

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    Until TOCs "get it" that promoting paperless tickets is not a licence to reduce validity, then paperless tickets won't work. Sites like moneysavingexpert will call it out all day long (which is where the national papers get their stories). So, hi TOCs, how about producing paperless ticket options that don't take away passengers' rights. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.
     

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