GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

[Peter Mugridge]

1A25 is pretty much always an 800.

Good; thank you.


Edited: It produced, thank you - and even better one of the pair was a new haulage for me as well.

 

[Mark62]

When will,these new super fast trains be a fast as the hst were 40 years ago? Bristol Parkway in 63 mins. London to Swindon in 40 mins. A massive amount of money has been spent of new trains and so called route improvements and yet trains 40 years ago were faster.
I have the BR timetables from way back and they make illuminating reading. The current trains have been deliberately slowed and have so much running time.
Of course when a few minutes are shaved off by the new trains they will be heralded as being faster.
Not everyone has a short memory or is so easily conned.
Our new high speed trains are much slower than trains 40 years ago. They have more seats crammed into each coach with less leg room. They have under floor engines which will beintolerably load and intrusive on the banks of Devon and Cornwall.
How are these new trains an improvement?
They look like standard modern design cattle trains that are amongst the most uncomfortable in the world.
Progress? Don't be daft.

 

[transmanche]

When will,these new super fast trains be a fast as the hst were 40 years ago? Bristol Parkway in 63 mins. London to Swindon in 40 mins. [...] I have the BR timetables from way back and they make illuminating reading. The current trains have been deliberately slowed and have so much running time. [...] Our new high speed trains are much slower than trains 40 years ago.

If you have the old timetables, have you compared the calling patterns with those of today?

From a 2006 BBC News article:

Exactly 30 years since high speed trains, or Intercity 125s, first ran in the UK, the journey from Swansea to London takes around 20 minutes longer. The reason has nothing to do with their age or reliability - more that they became a victim of their own success. Additional stops were added to the line as demand from passengers flourished.

"If you recall the timetable in the 1970s when they were first introduced the journey from Swansea to London would take 2hrs 39mins," said Clive Williams, a former director of the Rail Passenger Committee for Wales. "Now you have to plan very much on the basis of it taking three hours."

Initially the trains would only stop at the major stations but over the years others, such as Neath, Port Talbot and Bridgend, were added. Mr Williams said while it inevitably led to longer journey times it had made train travel more accessible to many. "People would be up in arms now if you advocated the number of stations being reduced - they are living communities on the main line and need to be served."

So yes, whilst services have more padding to help reliability on today's far more congested network, the main reason for 'slower services' is the calling pattern. The question is, do you want fast services that only benefit end-to-end passengers, or do you want services that call at more places?

 

[Dai Corner]

If you have the old timetables, have you compared the calling patterns with those of today?

From a 2006 BBC News article:
So yes, whilst services have more padding to help reliability on today's far more congested network, the main reason for 'slower services' is the calling pattern. The question is, do you want fast services that only benefit end-to-end passengers, or do you want services that call at more places?

Once the new timetable comes in Bristol, at least, will have both.

 

[Chrisyd]

I am down with work in Bristol at the end of this week and was hoping to see an 800 or two. Having gone through the timetable I think these are the times they will be in Bristol Temple Meads, can anyone advise of any errors or omissions?

In Out
1C02 0818 0900 1A10
1C06 1013 1100 1A14
1C13 1343 1430 1A21
1C15 1443 1530 1A23
IC17 1541 1630 1A25
1C25 1944 2030 1A33
1A37 2127
1L96 2224

 

[wbm00]

I'm aware of certain services (I'm interested in the Cotswold Line) which are IETs but unclear whether GWR is continuing to receive IETs? The frequently requested allocations post says valid until March 2018.

 

[387star]

Are turbos no longer used on cotswold line

 

[sufian123]

Are turbos no longer used on cotswold line

They are I saw a few last time I was at Worcester.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There's a lot of IETs out today; have additional diagrams started today?

 

[Siemens Staines]

Are turbos no longer used on cotswold line

Weekdays
2W10 0514 Oxford - Worcester Foregate St
1W11 0512 Paddington - Moreton in Marsh
1W16 0750 Paddington - Great Malvern (pair to Moreton in Marsh where rear unit is detached)
1W31 1522 Paddington - Great Malvern
1W36 1751 Paddington - Worcester Shrub Hill (pair to Oxford where rear unit is detached)

1P14 0710 Moreton in Marsh - Paddington (pair from Oxford)
2E92 0653 Worcester Foregate St - Didcot
1P23 0950 Moreton in Marsh - Paddington
1P27 1059 Great Malvern - Paddington
1P45 1834 Great Malvern - Paddington
1P49 2059 Worcester Foregate St - Paddington

1P14 was only a single 3 car through to Paddington this morning so perhaps that diagram has changed?

Weekends are pot luck, firstly on whether the train even runs and secondly on traction type

 

[father_jack]

There's a lot of IETs out today; have additional diagrams started today?

I don't think so. 0447, 0700 and 1230 Bristol TM to Paddington 5 vice 10, not just locked out but only one set full stop

 

[jimm]

Weekdays
2W10 0514 Oxford - Worcester Foregate St
1W11 0512 Paddington - Moreton in Marsh
1W16 0750 Paddington - Great Malvern (pair to Moreton in Marsh where rear unit is detached)
1W31 1522 Paddington - Great Malvern
1W36 1751 Paddington - Worcester Shrub Hill (pair to Oxford where rear unit is detached)

1P14 0710 Moreton in Marsh - Paddington (pair from Oxford)
2E92 0653 Worcester Foregate St - Didcot
1P23 0950 Moreton in Marsh - Paddington
1P27 1059 Great Malvern - Paddington
1P45 1834 Great Malvern - Paddington
1P49 2059 Worcester Foregate St - Paddington

1P14 was only a single 3 car through to Paddington this morning so perhaps that diagram has changed?

Weekends are pot luck, firstly on whether the train even runs and secondly on traction type

With the proviso that several of the above are likely to be short-lived, possibly just a matter of weeks, as more IETs are delivered - and hopefully Oxford drivers finally get trained.

Turbo operation of the 05.12/07.10, 15.22/18.34 and 17.51/20.59 pairings is an interim measure. And the 07.50/09.50 & 10.59 will be succeeded by an IET duty of some sort when the new timetable kicks in next January - and perhaps sooner than that.

From January there will be just be a two-car Turbo on the morning halts train - presumably still at similar times to the current 05.15/06.53, though the afternoon halts train is expected to become a Turbo starting at Didcot or Oxford from January, rather than being a through IET service from London.

The 07.10 from Moreton-in-Marshis a bit of a lottery, as there sometimes isn't a second set available to attach at Oxford - and this morning the Turbos that had been used to shuttle up and down between Hanborough and Malvern yesterday were still at Worcester (ran back empty stock to Reading around lunchtime), so they were probably short of sets at the Oxford/Reading end first thing.

 

[cactustwirly]

Weekdays
2W10 0514 Oxford - Worcester Foregate St
1W11 0512 Paddington - Moreton in Marsh
1W16 0750 Paddington - Great Malvern (pair to Moreton in Marsh where rear unit is detached)
1W31 1522 Paddington - Great Malvern
1W36 1751 Paddington - Worcester Shrub Hill (pair to Oxford where rear unit is detached)

1P14 0710 Moreton in Marsh - Paddington (pair from Oxford)
2E92 0653 Worcester Foregate St - Didcot
1P23 0950 Moreton in Marsh - Paddington
1P27 1059 Great Malvern - Paddington
1P45 1834 Great Malvern - Paddington
1P49 2059 Worcester Foregate St - Paddington

1P14 was only a single 3 car through to Paddington this morning so perhaps that diagram has changed?

Weekends are pot luck, firstly on whether the train even runs and secondly on traction type

You missed out the 0822 Paddington to Hereford & it's return working.

 

[jimm]

Probably because it is booked for an HST and should be one unless something has gone wrong with the set. Even in current circumstances, sending a Turbo all the way to Hereford is a last resort.

 

[cactustwirly]

Probably because it is booked for an HST and should be one unless something has gone wrong with the set. Even in current circumstances, sending a Turbo all the way to Hereford is a last resort.

The timing load on RTT was for a turbo and it has been reported on here before when people have been caught out expecting a HST.
Having said that it now has a HST timing load, but is still DOO east of Oxford.

 

[Siemens Staines]

The timing load on RTT was for a turbo and it has been reported on here before when people have been caught out expecting a HST.
Having said that it now has a HST timing load, but is still DOO east of Oxford.

It changed from being booked turbo to booked hst with the timetable change in January 2018. On the old timetable it used to split at Moreton in Marsh so had to be turbo (in the pre IET era), but that equivalent split now happens with the 0750 Paddington - Great Malvern

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I don't think so. 0447, 0700 and 1230 Bristol TM to Paddington 5 vice 10, not just locked out but only one set full stop

I asked a couple of crew ( one driver and one train manager - different workings ) and they both said there were 3 or 4 additional diagrams running now. A third crew member - another train manager - said he didn't know if they had or not.

Certainly there were noticeably more around than I've seen before; for example three in a side by side row at Paddington this morning. Passed at least four other IETs while on one to Reading - usually only ever passed two previously. Three consecutive IET departures for Paddington in a row at Reading this evening ( caveat - some of the workings were out of sequence due to an earlier signal failure at Swindon )...

 

[Siemens Staines]

As far as I know there are currently 4 5-car diagrams and 12 10-car diagrams, so in total 28 units on passenger diagrams. An additional 10-car is required for driver training so 30 diagrams for 30 the units accepted in to traffic. Someone will correct me if I have these numbers wrong.

In practice, two of the 5-car diagrams are often the same unit as two diagrams do not overlap, although whether or not Hitachi still charge for covering two diagrams I don't know. But as reported by father_jack, yesterday three of the 10-car diagrams were 5-cars.

I believe the next 10-car diagram starts on Monday.

 

[FGW_DID]

Yep correct, there are 28 IET passenger diagrams SX.

For info for those who are interested, the rest of the Fleet SX diagrams:

HST: 35
Turbo (LTV): 30
387: 41
West: 64

 

[JN114]

I should point out the “West” figure includes the Bristol-based 166s

 

[FGW_DID]

I should point out the “West” figure includes the Bristol-based 166s

Good point, post edited to stop any confusion.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Thank you for the confirmation.

I presume that Turbo:30 figure is just the Thames Valley Turbo diagrams (from 33 units when all of the Wolverton/Long Marston units are excluded). There must be another 14 or 15 Turbos within the West figure.

I apologise. I hadn't seen you had already clarified my query before I hit send.

 

[Thunderer]

When will,these new super fast trains be a fast as the hst were 40 years ago? Bristol Parkway in 63 mins. London to Swindon in 40 mins. A massive amount of money has been spent of new trains and so called route improvements and yet trains 40 years ago were faster.
I have the BR timetables from way back and they make illuminating reading. The current trains have been deliberately slowed and have so much running time.
Of course when a few minutes are shaved off by the new trains they will be heralded as being faster.
Not everyone has a short memory or is so easily conned.
Our new high speed trains are much slower than trains 40 years ago. They have more seats crammed into each coach with less leg room. They have under floor engines which will beintolerably load and intrusive on the banks of Devon and Cornwall.
How are these new trains an improvement?
They look like standard modern design cattle trains that are amongst the most uncomfortable in the world.
Progress? Don't be daft.

I agree 100%. I have an old timetable here for 1987. Bridgend to London could be done in 2hrs 15 or 20 mins. It now takes 2.5 hours with the same train. It has the same calling points now as it did then for most services between Swansea and London, so we can't really attribute the extra time to that. Congestion is a factor, plus privatisation "pads" extra time into timetables for less late running, therefore paying out less compensation to passengers. With regards to the 800, I agree totally. The DFT has wasted billions partly electrifying the GWR (Half a job now due to the rocketing price) and millions on glorified Japanese DEMU's that are as about as confortable as sitting on an orange box. The world beating design was already there, the HST. If they had any sense, they could have saved billions by not electrifying the line at all and by not building the 800/802's. All that was needed was to bring the HST into the 21st century..the power cars were fine after MTU re-engining, all that was really needed was new rakes of an updated design closely based on the MK3 type coaches (electric/plug exterior doors, toilet retention tanks, new interior, more seats etc) 4,500HP can easily move and shift 9 coaches (they do on the ECML) so the scope for increased capacity is there with an extra coach, more seats in each coach and a smaller cafe bar style buffet instead of a full buffet car. The money saved then could be given to the N.H.S or care for the elderly...food for thought?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

More 800 diagrams approaching people, including the first Cheltenham and Hereford diagrams plus the introduction of nine carriage sets.

From Monday 25th June:

1G11 0736 PAD - CNM
1L50 1036 CNM - PAD
1G38 1336 PAD - CNM
1L80 1620 CNM - PAD

1G29 1136 PAD - CNM
1L67 1436 CNM - PAD
1W02 1722 PAD - HFD
1P51 2151 HFD - PAD

The above are nine carriage sets.

From Monday 2nd July:

1P12 0528 HFD - PAD
1D18 0851 PAD - OXF
1P24 1101 OXF - PAD
1W25 1221 PAD - WSH
1P61 1522 WSH - PAD
1W36 1752 PAD - WSH
1P49 2059 WOF - PAD

My source is WNXX.

 

[JN114]

WSH - Wishford

Worcester Shrub Hill - WOS

If you insist on using acronyms let’s at least get them right.

 

[jimm]

More 800 diagrams approaching people, including the first Cheltenham and Hereford diagrams plus the introduction of nine carriage sets.

From Monday 25th June:

1G11 0736 PAD - CNM
1L50 1036 CNM - PAD
1G38 1336 PAD - CNM
1L80 1620 CNM - PAD

1G29 1136 PAD - CNM
1L67 1436 CNM - PAD
1W02 1722 PAD - HFD
1P51 2151 HFD - PAD

The above are nine carriage sets.

From Monday 2nd July:

1P12 0528 HFD - PAD
1D18 0851 PAD - OXF
1P24 1101 OXF - PAD
1W25 1221 PAD - WSH
1P61 1522 WSH - PAD
1W36 1752 PAD - WSH
1P49 2059 WOF - PAD

My source is WNXX.

These have been on the GW Passengers' Forum for a fortnight, by the look of it. http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19622.0

And the Monday July 2 diagram comes with the proviso that services to and via Oxford will be subject to major alterations from July 1 until July 22, due to completion of the Oxford area resignalling project, so whether the diagram will operate for much of that period seems unlikely

 

[43055]

More 800 diagrams approaching people, including the first Cheltenham and Hereford diagrams plus the introduction of nine carriage sets.

From Monday 25th June:

1G11 0736 PAD - CNM
1L50 1036 CNM - PAD
1G38 1336 PAD - CNM
1L80 1620 CNM - PAD

1G29 1136 PAD - CNM
1L67 1436 CNM - PAD
1W02 1722 PAD - HFD
1P51 2151 HFD - PAD

The above are nine carriage sets.

From Monday 2nd July:

1P12 0528 HFD - PAD
1D18 0851 PAD - OXF
1P24 1101 OXF - PAD
1W25 1221 PAD - WSH
1P61 1522 WSH - PAD
1W36 1752 PAD - WSH
1P49 2059 WOF - PAD

My source is WNXX.

I have found another diagram to balance with the one starting on the 2nd July.

1W11 0513 PAD-MIM
1P14 0710 MIM-PAD
1B20 0945 PAD-SWA
1L66 1329 SWA-PAD
1J91 1707 PAD-FRO

 

[387star]

When will,these new super fast trains be a fast as the hst were 40 years ago? Bristol Parkway in 63 mins. London to Swindon in 40 mins. A massive amount of money has been spent of new trains and so called route improvements and yet trains 40 years ago were faster.
I have the BR timetables from way back and they make illuminating reading. The current trains have been deliberately slowed and have so much running time.
Of course when a few minutes are shaved off by the new trains they will be heralded as being faster.
Not everyone has a short memory or is so easily conned.
Our new high speed trains are much slower than trains 40 years ago. They have more seats crammed into each coach with less leg room. They have under floor engines which will beintolerably load and intrusive on the banks of Devon and Cornwall.
How are these new trains an improvement?
They look like standard modern design cattle trains that are amongst the most uncomfortable in the world.
Progress? Don't be daft.

Less legroom than an HST? Not sure that's the case?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Less legroom than an HST? Not sure that's the case?

Agreed, the leg room on IETs is very generous.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Does anyone know if the 20:00 or 20:15 from London Paddington to Didcot Parkway (fast Reading services) at normally booked for an IST? My day out this Wednesday involves one of these + I missed out on one yesterday morning from Oxford to London Paddington.