GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

[ATW158Xpress]

Lots of HST’s on South Wales diagrams today.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Are there? So far today I have only picked up the following as HST with everything else being an IET. Are there some that I have missed?

1B20 0945 Paddington - Swansea
1B37 1315 Paddington - Cardiff
1B42 1415 Paddington - Cardiff
1B46 1445 Paddington - Swansea

1L08 0458 Swansea - Paddington
1L66 1329 Swansea - Paddington
1L74 1556 Cardiff - Paddington
1L82 1656 Cardiff - Paddington

 

[cactustwirly]

Are there? So far today I have only picked up the following as HST with everything else being an IET. Are there some that I have missed?

1B20 0945 Paddington - Swansea
1B37 1315 Paddington - Cardiff
1B42 1415 Paddington - Cardiff
1B46 1445 Paddington - Swansea

1L08 0458 Swansea - Paddington
1L66 1329 Swansea - Paddington
1L74 1556 Cardiff - Paddington
1L82 1656 Cardiff - Paddington

I believe the 1756 Cardiff - Paddington is a booked a HST

 

[Siemens Staines]

That's curious because the down train to form the 1756, the 1515 Paddington - Cardiff, shows up as a 9-car

1B48 PADTON CRDFCEN 2 16:40 On time 16:41 On time
Last report: Arrived at Swindon (16:12)
This train has 9 coaches. 1st class in the front 2 coaches.

 

[cactustwirly]

That's curious because the down train to form the 1756, the 1515 Paddington - Cardiff, shows up as a 9-car

1B48 PADTON CRDFCEN 2 16:40 On time 16:41 On time
Last report: Arrived at Swindon (16:12)
This train has 9 coaches. 1st class in the front 2 coaches.

Interesting, must have gone over to an 800 fairly recently then

 

[FGW_DID]

I believe the 1756 Cardiff - Paddington is a booked a HST

That's curious because the down train to form the 1756, the 1515 Paddington - Cardiff, shows up as a 9-car

1B48 PADTON CRDFCEN 2 16:40 On time 16:41 On time
Last report: Arrived at Swindon (16:12)
This train has 9 coaches. 1st class in the front 2 coaches.

Those workings are on a 800 (9) diagram.
Currently 800304 allocated.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

1L66 13:29 from Swansea is an HST

 

[Siemens Staines]

Thank you for the confirmation. I was kind of expecting things to be a bit different today, purely because it is the first Monday in a month without the diagrams being heavily modified by a major line closure somewhere, and a lot can change in a month, so I was just trying to track what was what.

 

[CC 72100]

It's more of a gradual decline. The current base plan (which is being validated as I speak) has 3 diagrams going on 22/10, 1 on 05/11, 3 on 19/11 and 2 on 10/12. However, to finish using OOC from 10/12, a couple of current SG-SG 800 workings have to temporarily revert to being SPM-SPM HST to release enough 9 cars so there is a bit of a swap round on 10/12/18. Wales will still see a (very) few HST workings per day. A Penzance starter should commence from that date too.

The aim in that plan is to only have 13 SX HST diagrams as from 10/12. After Xmas, with all the Scotrail units gone and OOC vacated, the pace of replacement can, at last, slacken.

The draft diagrams for 22/10 are planned as follows - usual comments about STP alteration for engineering works apply. For brevity, train reporting numbers only;

(WOS) - 1L10 - (NP) - 1G60 - (SG).
(SG) - 1G02, 1L36, 1C12, 1A20, 1B55 - (MAL).
(MAL) - 1L20, 1G21, 1L58, 1B48, 1L88, 1W39 - (WOS).

For 5/11 the planned working is;

(MAL) - 1L14, 1C07, 1A15, 1C16, 1A24, 1B76 - (MAL).

That's it for now.

Thanks for this Clarence Yard, appreciated as always.

 

[CMRail]

Clarence, I believe that some of those have already gone over. 0640 onto 0831 has been IET for just under one month and 1G60 was IET for ages and then went over to HST just last week.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Some have gone over previously as a prolonged STP fix for other issues but these are the proper LTP cascade diagrams.

I don't have any visibility over the STP stuff and that seems to change almost daily, such is the need at the moment. Even a planned late on depot will affect the following mornings diagrams, because of the mandatory maintenance windows.

 

[Bringback309s]

Sorry if this has been asked already, I thought 800's wern't cleared for Cornwall as they have lesser powered engines than 802's, I'm sure 800 316 is currently on its way to Penzance?

 

[spark001uk]

Sorry if this has been asked already, I thought 800's wern't cleared for Cornwall as they have lesser powered engines than 802's, I'm sure 800 316 is currently on its way to Penzance?

As far as I can tell they are allowed, and can certainly make it, to Penzance, it's just that the 800 engines are set to slightly less power than the 802, so they warm up a little more than usual up the banks. I may well be corrected of course.

 

[cambsy]

800’s can definitely go to Penzance, as inadvertently was on the first 800 run to Penzance, on 4th September, 5 car 800 012, on its own, worked 1C04 07.30 Paddington-Penzance and 1A93 14.00 Penzance-Paddington, did the full journey, the 800 was slower on top of the South Devon banks but still quick away from restrictions, compared to 802 I did to Penzance more recently, the 802 climbed the banks better as had more grunt.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry if this has been asked already, I thought 800's wern't cleared for Cornwall as they have lesser powered engines than 802's, I'm sure 800 316 is currently on its way to Penzance?

The oldest IEP infrastructure specifications I could find on DFT website included all sorts of routes including Penzance. I think later quarterly EDP details also always included gauge clearance to Penzance, however the original GWR trains were not “normally expected” to go to Penzance. In 2014 or so it was up in the air whether they would keep a small HST fleet for most through “Devon and Cornwall” services, but IIRC that didn’t apply to Paignton - which was to see IETs anyway. Never as black and white as sometimes thought.

 

[Railperf]

the 802 climbed the banks better as had more grunt.

Yes we are recording much better performance from the completely 'unmuzzled' 802's compared to the 800's in both electric and diesel modes. In electric mode the 802's are not subject to the DFT specified acceleration curve - so 100mph is coming up in less than 2 mins and 125mph in 3min 15 secs - impressive stuff.

In diesel mode the sprint to 40/50mph is similar, maybe a fraction quicker, but then they pull more strongly to 125 mph. Acceleration doesn't match a HST between 50 and 125mph, but the initial burst to 50mph more than makes up for the slower later acceleration. And they do seem to be a true 125mph unit now - with the full 940hp per motor!! The 800's would balance around 118/119 mph and could get to 125mph downhill.

802's will do 125mph - no problem on the flat!

 

[cb00]

Unimpressed with GWR's removal of 8 carriage HSTs in favour of 5 carriage IETs on the Cotswold line.

Even during off-peak weekday services there is standing room only.

 

[sufian123]

Unimpressed with GWR's removal of 8 carriage HSTs in favour of 5 carriage IETs on the Cotswold line.

Even during off-peak weekday services there is standing room only.

It meant to be mixture of 5 or 9 carriages on that route. As soon as more 802s comes into service

 

[FGW_DID]

Unimpressed with GWR's removal of 8 carriage HSTs in favour of 5 carriage IETs on the Cotswold line.

Even during off-peak weekday services there is standing room only.

Really????
So you’ve obviously missed the 9 car 800’s that have been knocking around in the Cotswolds. I’ve been on a mid morning 9 car train Paddington bound and there was about 5 of us in the carriage. One of my regular trains is 1W29, a pretty solid 800(5) turn and that is never rammed.

I’ve been on one recently that was pretty cosy with vestibules full but that was a 5 vice 9 and the vast majority of the vestibule dwellers got on at Hanborough and piled out at Oxford!

Also near in mind that the IETs are replacing HST, 180 & Turbos on the Cotswolds.

Where’s @jimm ? A daily traveller on the Cotswolds.

 

[CMRail]

Unimpressed with GWR's removal of 8 carriage HSTs in favour of 5 carriage IETs on the Cotswold line.

Even during off-peak weekday services there is standing room only.

I sat in the quiet carriage with one other person on a Worcester-Oxford train...

As you said, full and standing

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Yes we are recording much better performance from the completely 'unmuzzled' 802's compared to the 800's in both electric and diesel modes. In electric mode the 802's are not subject to the DFT specified acceleration curve - so 100mph is coming up in less than 2 mins and 125mph in 3min 15 secs - impressive stuff.

In diesel mode the sprint to 40/50mph is similar, maybe a fraction quicker, but then they pull more strongly to 125 mph. Acceleration doesn't match a HST between 50 and 125mph, but the initial burst to 50mph more than makes up for the slower later acceleration. And they do seem to be a true 125mph unit now - with the full 940hp per motor!! The 800's would balance around 118/119 mph and could get to 125mph downhill.

802's will do 125mph - no problem on the flat!

Out of curiosity - how does the electric mode performance of an 802 compare to a Pendolino?

 

[Kite159]

I've had a full & standing Worcester bound train when it was a 5-coach 800 departing from London off-peak...

...emptied out at Slough with all the tourists heading towards Windsor (and after Oxford it was very lightly loaded)

 

[159220]

Would someone be kind enough to provide the diagrams allocated to 802s on Sundays, down to the Westcountry? I know I've seen them somewhere, yet hidden in countless pages.

 

[cb00]

Departing PAD it's often fully loaded in the weekday afternoons (not peak services). This is where the IET has replaced what used to be an HST so a drop in capacity.

 

[Railperf]

Departing PAD it's often fully loaded in the weekday afternoons (not peak services). This is where the IET has replaced what used to be an HST so a drop in capacity.

IET also replaced 5 car 180's on some routes!

 

[cb00]

IET also replaced 5 car 180's on some routes!

Which makes sense. What doesn't make sense is 8 car HSTs being replaced by 5 car IETs.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Which makes sense. What doesn't make sense is 8 car HSTs being replaced by 5 car IETs.

But no HST have in the LTP. They have all been replaced by 9 or 10 car IET.

 

[irish_rail]

But no HST have in the LTP. They have all been replaced by 9 or 10 car IET.

Except in Cornwall.

 

[Clarence Yard]

All the HST workings to/from Paddington and the south west that have gone over to IET are booked in the current LTP timetable (i.e. now) to be 9 or 10 car.

 

[Railperf]

Out of curiosity - how does the electric mode performance of an 802 compare to a Pendolino?

With regard to acceleration under 25KV - not discussing diesel here -
the acceleration curves are quite different. 802's seem to start off at a higher acceleration rate to around 60mph then tailing off. The 390's curve seems more linear, not as aggressive at the start but then not tailing off as much as an 802. The 802 gets to 60mph and 100mph faster, - 125mph seems to be similar give or take a few seconds - bearing in mind we cannot currently measure them on exactly the same track conditions and driver. But the measurements i have suggest an 802 would be almost 20 - 30 seconds quicker from rest to around 3 miles. Note that the Pendolino's are now fitted with an eco mode that limits power output unless the driver disengages it to make up for lost time. So the 802 seems to be setup for faster station get aways. The Pendolino seems to have more grunt above 60mph , but not enough to make for the time lost from 0-60.