GWR Ocean Saloons

[devonexpress]

Given that 5 out of a fleet of 8 remain of these historic coaches, would it ever be possible to see them all join together one day, either on a heritage railway such as the SDR, or maybe even do a mainline working as a GWR 'pullman inspired' railtour?

 

[pieguyrob]

According to what I read on wikipedia, they were built to a more generous loading guage. So would they be in guage to run on a mainline? No doubt it wouldn't be a problem on a preserved railway, as the SDR already runs two of them in its fleet. I believe that the others are awaiting or undergoing restoration at the Didcot Railway Centre.

 

[BigB]

For those like me who are curious, here's the link to the wiki page

GWR Super Saloons - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

BW

 

[EbbwJunction1]

So could they be used on their original route, i.e. London to Plymouth, or have there been changes since to forbid this?

 

[davetheguard]

Didn't the Great Western Society at Didcot run them on the main line as part of its vintage train at one time? Photos of a trip on the then freight-only Woodhead route springs to mind. And then the train stopped running railtours; presumably it no longer met modern crashworthyness standards post the Clapham accident?

 

[devonexpress]

Didn't the Great Western Society at Didcot run them on the main line as part of its vintage train at one time? Photos of a trip on the then freight-only Woodhead route springs to mind. And then the train stopped running railtours; presumably it no longer met modern crashworthyness standards post the Clapham accident?

But then the Bellond Pullman still runs on the mainline, as do MK1's. The GWR Ocean/Super Saloons I believe are roughly the same as the 165/166's width wise I believe, so although they couldn't leave GWR metals they could run on the GWML

 

[pieguyrob]

@BigB sorry I don't know how to post a link.

 

[mdewell]

Didn't the Great Western Society at Didcot run them on the main line as part of its vintage train at one time? Photos of a trip on the then freight-only Woodhead route springs to mind. And then the train stopped running railtours; presumably it no longer met modern crashworthyness standards post the Clapham accident?

Yes they did. I was lucky enough to be involved with the GWS at the time and got to travel in them on a couple of occasions (A fact that I appreciate much more now that I did at the time - how we take things for granted!)
I think the original withdrawal of the GWS Vintage Train from mainline use was due to the cost and time required to maintain them to the high standards required. Then the new regulations came out and wooden bodied coaches have not been allowed on the mainline for many years now.

 

[devonexpress]

Yes they did. I was lucky enough to be involved with the GWS at the time and got to travel in them on a couple of occasions (A fact that I appreciate much more now that I did at the time - how we take things for granted!)
I think the original withdrawal of the GWS Vintage Train from mainline use was due to the cost and time required to maintain them to the high standards required. Then the new regulations came out and wooden bodied coaches have not been allowed on the mainline for many years now.

But aren't the Pullman coaches wooden bodied? So it's more down a cost reason? I certainly look forward to when the GWS refurbish all 3 of theirs, hopefully they could join 9111 & 9116 on the SDR for a small period.

 

[Cowley]

But aren't the Pullman coaches wooden bodied? So it's more down a cost reason? I certainly look forward to when the GWS refurbish all 3 of theirs, hopefully they could join 9111 & 9116 on the SDR for a small period.

I believe that the Pullman cars aren’t wooden bodied although earlier versions that looked very similar were. Can anyone else confirm this?

 

[Chris125]

I believe that the Pullman cars aren’t wooden bodied although earlier versions that looked very similar were. Can anyone else confirm this?

A few of the Belmond (formerly VSOE) fleet are timber framed according to Kentrail: https://www.kentrail.org.uk/vsoe_british_pullman_fleet_review.htm

 

[devonexpress]

A few of the Belmond (formerly VSOE) fleet are timber framed according to Kentrail: https://www.kentrail.org.uk/vsoe_british_pullman_fleet_review.htm

I'm 90% sure that some of the older Pullman cars are timber framed.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm 90% sure that some of the older Pullman cars are timber framed.

I think the difference is that the actual body panels are metal, not timber, though?

Unless they were removed during refurbishment*, there are a surprising number of ( non-structural ) timber frame members in class 455s - and presumably the other Mk3 derived units - which are used to hold the interior trim panels in position.


*Anyone know, please?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Iirc, it wasn't the fact that they were wooden body framed that forced the GWS set off BR metals - there was a requirement that private coaches be effectively put on a BR style LHCS maintenance regime, including periodic lifting. The GWS thought that would not be cost effective for the amount of times the set would be on BR metals.

The so-called "wooden restrictions" came later and forced coaches such as wood framed saloon GE 1 off the BR network.

 

[Journeyman]

Pullman coaches used all-steel construction very early on - the Brighton Belle coaches are all-steel, and as such meet current crashworthiness regulations with very little need for alteration. The 2-BIL EMU, built not long afterwards, has a lot of timber components and wasn't allowed to run on the main line after the late 80s.

 

[Taunton]

I can remember them actually coming through Taunton on the odd occasion, with what must have been the last of the Ocean Liner boat trains, to about 1962 I guess. The Up trains generally followed the Up Cornish Riviera, similarly nonstop Plymouth to London at the time, about a block behind; the Riviera passed, then just a few minutes later all the Up distants came off again. Cleanest loco of the week, a credit to the Laira team, invariably a Castle to the end, and maybe 4 or 5 saloons. By then there was hardly anyone on board. I believe the last ship that came in via Plymouth was from South America; it carried on to London or elsewhere, but the passengers saved a day.