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GWR operating short 'HSTGTi' sets (see diagrams section for workings)

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Apedlar12

Apedlar12

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Heard rumors that the summer 57 service to Exeter will not be running anymore as it will be run by a castle set from next year. Any confirmation would be much appreciated :)
 
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Thunderer

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I've heard that the "Castle" HST sets (when readily available and complete) will be working services out of Cardiff to Taunton/Paignton/Plymouth and return on a regular basis. Is that correct?
 
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50031

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Thunderer said:
I've heard that the "Castle" HST sets (when readily available and complete) will be working services out of Cardiff to Taunton/Paignton/Plymouth and return on a regular basis. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

Cardiff-Taunton
Penzance-Plymouth/Exeter
The odd working to Gloucester - morning Gloucester-Taunton mentioned by "Clarence Yard"

Not sure about Paignton
 
Thunderer

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50031 said:
Cardiff-Taunton
Penzance-Plymouth/Exeter
The odd working to Gloucester - morning Gloucester-Taunton mentioned by "Clarence Yard"

Not sure about Paignton
Click to expand...
Excellent..I shall look forward to still seeing the HST's in Cardiff in the future. Shame they didn't add a 5th composite coach, so as to offer passengers a First Class option for these journeys.
 
co-tr-paul

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Not yet authenticated but 2x full HST sets to remain as Hitatchi don't want their trains doing Glastonbury, Cheltenham Races, Reading Festival, Newquay Boardmasters etc. As of last week so the word goes....
What this means for power car numbers retained is uncertain.
As stated, as yet, not official.
Also, following "many" operational difficulties, there is talk already of reforming IETs into 7 cars for far west services due to platform lengths
(Bikes in first 5 car, customers in 2nd 5 car - not being platformed etc.... ) .
Would have been nice to have a 1st class part in the HSTGTIs but they are just a unit replacement.
 
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C

CMRail

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co-tr-paul said:
Not yet authenticated but 2x full HST sets to remain as Hitatchi don't want their trains doing Glastonbury, Cheltenham Races, Reading Festival, Newquay Boardmasters etc. As of last week so the word goes....
What this means for power car numbers retained is uncertain.
As stated, as yet, not official.
Also, following "many" operational difficulties, there is talk already of reforming IETs into 7 cars for far west services due to platform lengths
(Bikes in first 5 car, customers in 2nd 5 car - not being platformed etc.... ) .
Would have been nice to have a 1st class part in the HSTGTIs but they are just a unit replacement.
Click to expand...

I believe the plan is for the 2x5 services to split at Plymouth for Penzance eventually though?
 
co-tr-paul

co-tr-paul

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That's what I thought too. Perhaps its just until timetable comes into place ??
Just onboard staff reporting lots of over carrying due trapped in not platformed section.
Anyhow, for now I try not to be involved with the things !!!
 
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Parallel

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If the rumour is true and Hitachi don’t want their trains going to the above mentioned places, can they enforce that legally? I don’t think that’s on, surely it’s not up to them to dictate. Their trains will still get wrecked when used on Cardiff match days and the like. Also, two HSTs isn’t enough to provide ALL services to Castle Cary for Glastonbury anyway. Doesn’t seem to make sense.
 
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CMRail

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Parallel said:
If the rumour is true and Hitachi don’t want their trains going to the above mentioned places, can they enforce that legally? I don’t think that’s on, surely it’s not up to them to dictate. Their trains will still get wrecked when used on Cardiff match days and the like. Also, two HSTs isn’t enough to provide ALL services to Castle Cary for Glastonbury anyway. Doesn’t seem to make sense.
Click to expand...

And would that stop people from traveling on the regular services i.e the stopping Cheltenham’s?
 
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Clarence Yard

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co-tr-paul said:
Not yet authenticated but 2x full HST sets to remain as Hitatchi don't want their trains doing Glastonbury, Cheltenham Races, Reading Festival, Newquay Boardmasters etc. As of last week so the word goes....
What this means for power car numbers retained is uncertain.
As stated, as yet, not official.
Also, following "many" operational difficulties, there is talk already of reforming IETs into 7 cars for far west services due to platform lengths
(Bikes in first 5 car, customers in 2nd 5 car - not being platformed etc.... ) .
Would have been nice to have a 1st class part in the HSTGTIs but they are just a unit replacement.
Click to expand...

Total and utter wibble, some of it coming from within the business. The only retentions of HST sets that has been authorized is to cover for late delivery of Hitachi sets, which are still slipping behind. There will be enough 800/802 sets to cater for special events next summer and it isn't up to Hitachi to say what special events they can or cannot cover, as long as it doesn't affect the TARA. That's a GWR decision.

Speculation about reforming 5 and 9 car sets is also wide of the mark as there are considerable difficulties in doing so, because of the different types of car involved. It also affects DfT peak seat requirements. Extending existing sets is far more likely, if it is ever required and then it has to be authorized by the DfT.

There are some within GWR that cannot get over the loss of their beloved HST sets and the fact that they are slowly heading for the gas axe.
 
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Goldfish62

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CMRail said:
Eh? Why? 5 coaches is more than enough, means people will not get left in the rear half onwards reducing station dwell times.
Click to expand...
You clearly don't use trains in Cornwall if you think that five coaches on London trains are enough.
 
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CMRail

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DenmarkRail said:
Exactly. As I’ve always said, 5 carriages on a Cornwall express train isn’t enough.
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You also suggest by your tone that everyone suggests this. No, someone misunderstands. If you think that 380 seats is not enough between Plymouth and Penzance then I suggest you spend a day traveling between those two places.
 
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jimm

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CMRail said:
You also suggest by your tone that everyone suggests this. No, someone misunderstands. If you think that 380 seats is not enough between Plymouth and Penzance then I suggest you spend a day traveling between those two places.
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Especially when the forthcoming enhanced timetable for Cornwall, featuring the short HSTs and maybe even, gasp, some nine-car IETs as part of an enhanced London-Cornwall service operating every two hours, will provide 2 trains per hour all day in both directions between Plymouth and Penzance, and giving a substantial capacity increase.

Though it is 320 or so seats on a five-car GWR-spec IET.
 
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Parallel

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CMRail said:
Between Plymouth and Penzance. Not once did anyone mention that the full journey should be 5 coaches.
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I’ve been on 8 coach HSTs between Plymouth and Penzance that are completely wedged. The only saving grace is there will be a higher frequency of services between the two.
 
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D1009

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Parallel said:
I’ve been on 8 coach HSTs between Plymouth and Penzance that are completely wedged. The only saving grace is there will be a higher frequency of services between the two.
Click to expand...
I've seen people by the hundred piling off up HST services at Plymouth. It's because the current timetable is inadequate in Cornwall, something which was acknowledged by GWR some time, and has led to signalling enhancements.
 
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The Ham

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PHILIPE said:
These through trains to Cornwall are not being worked by Short HGTis
Click to expand...

Although that is true, it does allow those traveling shorter distances (say Penzance to Exeter) to have another choice of services rather than a fairly slow stopping service or a London service.

It's also worth noting that there's going to be the semi fasts from London, which people may not opt to use of everything is equal. However they may do if it works out cheaper, even if they have to switch to another service to get beyond Exeter/Plymouth.

With regards to 5 coach services there's a few items of note:
- there's going to be more services over the day (IIRC 12 Vs 9)
- a 5 coach unit has something like 60% the capacity of the higher capacity HST's
- a 9 coach unit has something like 120% of the capacity of the higher capacity HST's

As such if you have three 9 coach services plus the extra services, over the day there's the same number of seats even if most of the services are 5 coaches. 9*100% (i.e. 9 HST services) is 900% (of one HST) whilst 9*60% plus 3*120% is 900% (of one HST).

Then add in the possible option to swap 5 coach units from Cornwall with 9 coach units from (say) the Cotswold services during the summer months when demand switches away from commuting to travel to the southwest and you have scope to increase capacity.
 
Melancholia

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The Ham said:
Although that is true, it does allow those traveling shorter distances (say Penzance to Exeter) to have another choice of services rather than a fairly slow stopping service or a London service.

It's also worth noting that there's going to be the semi fasts from London, which people may not opt to use of everything is equal. However they may do if it works out cheaper, even if they have to switch to another service to get beyond Exeter/Plymouth.

With regards to 5 coach services there's a few items of note:
- there's going to be more services over the day (IIRC 12 Vs 9)
- a 5 coach unit has something like 60% the capacity of the higher capacity HST's
- a 9 coach unit has something like 120% of the capacity of the higher capacity HST's

As such if you have three 9 coach services plus the extra services, over the day there's the same number of seats even if most of the services are 5 coaches. 9*100% (i.e. 9 HST services) is 900% (of one HST) whilst 9*60% plus 3*120% is 900% (of one HST).

Then add in the possible option to swap 5 coach units from Cornwall with 9 coach units from (say) the Cotswold services during the summer months when demand switches away from commuting to travel to the southwest and you have scope to increase capacity.
Click to expand...

What he meant by that post is this thread has gone quite off-topic...
 
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embers25

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The Ham said:
Although that is true, it does allow those traveling shorter distances (say Penzance to Exeter) to have another choice of services rather than a fairly slow stopping service or a London service.

It's also worth noting that there's going to be the semi fasts from London, which people may not opt to use of everything is equal. However they may do if it works out cheaper, even if they have to switch to another service to get beyond Exeter/Plymouth.

With regards to 5 coach services there's a few items of note:
- there's going to be more services over the day (IIRC 12 Vs 9)
- a 5 coach unit has something like 60% the capacity of the higher capacity HST's
- a 9 coach unit has something like 120% of the capacity of the higher capacity HST's

As such if you have three 9 coach services plus the extra services, over the day there's the same number of seats even if most of the services are 5 coaches. 9*100% (i.e. 9 HST services) is 900% (of one HST) whilst 9*60% plus 3*120% is 900% (of one HST).

Then add in the possible option to swap 5 coach units from Cornwall with 9 coach units from (say) the Cotswold services during the summer months when demand switches away from commuting to travel to the southwest and you have scope to increase capacity.
Click to expand...

Coming back particularly can be wedged where a 5 coach is not enough. I've come back in the afternoon when services ran every 30 minutes and my HST was still full with standing from Truro. If you catch the St Ives, Falmouth and Looe connections all on one train good luck! The 1120 IEP is 10 car and often full from Plymouth going west too. Obviously this is only during summer but still, given what's happened on Bristol trains, 5 coach London to Penzance trains are likely to be a very common occurrence despite GWR assurances. Yes a 5 car is better than no train but it is not better than the 7/8 car HST it was before.
 
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