GWR Performance - deteriorating?

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by GoneSouth, 12 Aug 2019.

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  1. headshot119

    headshot119 Established Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you at all, in fact I fully agree with you. Unfortunately franchising in this country is so micro-managed by the DFT, little will happen until they want it to. And ultimately they used a hammer to try and crack a nut on Northern with the guards, and look how well that worked out for them.
     
  2. tiptoptaff

    tiptoptaff Established Member

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    Yes, but they told me I wouldn't have to work Sundays.
     
  3. mrcheek

    mrcheek Established Member

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    Why should sunday be different from any other day? More and more people are nowadays required to work whatever days they are needed for, that need being dictated by public demand. Maybe one day railway employment contracts will join the rest of us in the 21st Century
     
  4. tiptoptaff

    tiptoptaff Established Member

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    Maybe. But not yet. And that's not my problem. Up to the company and the union. No Sunday in? No worky
     
  5. Dieseldriver

    Dieseldriver Member

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    Worth noting that the employment contracts that I have signed for the 3 separate TOCs have all been 'in the 21st century' with Sundays inside. They also include extremely erratic shift work, Bank Holidays, Saturdays and Sundays. If my employer had chosen to keep Sundays out of the working week, as an employee working for that company I would avoid working them as far as I could to make up for the countless times my personal life is disrupted by the job. As it stands my thoughts are irrelevant as like I said, Sundays for me are part of the normal working week (as they are for most TOCs) but if it is in someone's employment contract as being outside of the working week then they are not expected to work them.
     
  6. mrcheek

    mrcheek Established Member

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    Interesting to know that, as I assumed this was an industry-wide issue. But maybe its more a GWR issue. and one that the evidence above suggests they need to resolve
    In my job, Sunday working has always been the norm, since its the busiest day of the week. And I work every Bank Holiday too. I actually prefer it that way, would rather have time off some other time.
     
  7. Dieseldriver

    Dieseldriver Member

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    But in your job you don't have ill informed members of the public telling you that you should attend work when you're not required to. The shift 'patterns' of a Train Driver are awful, body clock constantly swinging like a pendulum and not to mention the companies ability to completely alter your start times and hours when you're spare, it's hard to have a social life outside of work. If I had a contract that enabled me to guarantee a regular day off every week (Sundays being outside) then I would probably rarely work Sundays (bearing in mind the Sunday would regularly not be a quality day off anyway as I could be starting at 2am/3am on the following day).
    As it stands, my contract has Sundays inside so I have no choice and I go about my work as booked which is just the way it is.
     
  8. SN1 19-5

    SN1 19-5 Member

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    Why can't train people work along the lines (!) of some sort of four on four off?

    I did this years ago and I found it quite useful. Yes, you might have to start work at 18:00 on a Friday night and do four straight 12 hour night shifts Sat/Sun and Mon.

    It worked for me when I got to the days of Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon off, I could go for long weekends, get some work done at home, see to family stuff VERY easily......
    I did do a couple of OT shifts if they cropped up and I didn't have anyting going on at home! I like this kind of plan.

    Worth thinking about?..
     
    Last edited: 9 Sep 2019
  9. LordCreed

    LordCreed Member

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    Firstly it would require Sundays being part of the working week.

    Secondly, I don't know any passenger operator that would roster their drivers 12 hour shifts. The slightest disruption would lead to hidden breaches
     
  10. SN1 19-5

    SN1 19-5 Member

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    What hours do the drivers do now? 9.5? 35 hours a week? My sums are not good. I can't work out how to divide 35 by 9.5. No matter.
    How about four 10 hour shifts then?

    Drivers would be UP FIVE hours overtime. And, once in a while have FOUR days off in a row.
     
  11. GoneSouth

    GoneSouth Member

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    Are you a vicar? ;)

    Seriously though, I started this as a genuine moan about GWR letting down some customers quite badly on a Sunday. I never intended or thought it would descend into some idiotic trolling by some. Apologies to anyone who has been targeted and thanks for working your days off.

    Oh and finally, if Mrs Fortesque thinks it’s so cushy being a train driver, GWR are recruiting... money where your mouth is time..?

    No, thought not!
     
  12. tiptoptaff

    tiptoptaff Established Member

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    We appreciate that it's inconvenient and isn't great for you. But there's only so much we can do before we burn out, and get fatigued. Fatigue puts us, you, and everyone else at risk.
     
  13. GoneSouth

    GoneSouth Member

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    Yup, completely appreciate that, and just to reiterate, I definitely wasn’t directing any moans to the crews. Cheers.
     
  14. tiptoptaff

    tiptoptaff Established Member

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    I know - it was for the benefit of certain lurkers on this thread!
     
  15. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Established Member

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    A slightly generalised thought, but a relevant one nonetheless:

    Why is the focus always on front line staff fatigue and never, repeat NEVER, on manager fatigue? In fact railway managers are usually expected to step in on weekends to cover when rostered staff are unavailable, in addition to undertaking the day job. Usually management contracts do not provide for overtime payments, except where exceptional circumstances permit.
     
  16. Mitchell Hurd

    Mitchell Hurd Member

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    One thing that does seem to be regular at GWR is catering reliability issues on Sundays - the routes to and from London and Penzance in particular.

    That's one thing that puts me off travelling to and from Didcot Parkway and Liskeard on a Sunday (possibly further) - I've simply not got the energy to hear 'No Catering Facilities' announced on the platform or multiple times on the IET's.

    Supposing these services are delayed for a good few hours or so because of a problem on the lines or onboard. Also for some people, it's not that straight forward to spend time queueing in shops to pay for food and drink when you can eat and drink on the train at the same time.
     
  17. StaffsWCML

    StaffsWCML Member

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    Very true.

    The management staff are not protected by the unions either generally and most of the front line staff hate the managers, its a tough job and an archaic industry.

    It is difficult to sack even the most incompetent members of staff as the unions often find clauses and get outs, good members of staff can be bullied for being managers favourites; yet the unions fail to recognise this. Its a strange world!

    I know people hark on about the good old days but a lot of the problems with the railways are due to some of the dinosaurs within it, their inability to modernise and accept change. People think that a return to BR is the solution. I personally think de-unionisation would be more effective.
     
  18. tiptoptaff

    tiptoptaff Established Member

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    Ahh, another who thinks we shouldn't be protected just because other unions are weak. My eyes just rolled that hard, I'd be surprised if you didn't hear them
     
  19. StaffsWCML

    StaffsWCML Member

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    Protected from what and whom? I can understand if there is a valid reason for a grievance but quite often there is not. There is weak and then there is pathetic. Some of the stuff that goes on is laughable. I am all for proportional strength but sometimes they have to accept they are wrong they don't and wont. If management say they sky is blue the union will say its a shade of purple, just because they can.

    When I worked in the railways there was a staff member that got sacked because they were useless, aggressive arrogant, they were reinstated on some technicality found by the union reps, surprisingly they were still aggressive and utterly useless at their job, no respect for management I just gave up. Another member of staff was sacked for being rubbish, they got reinstated because the union was going to go on strike.

    There is an extreme dis-trust and dislike for management in many cases with no cause, staff who work well with the management are often bullied and ostracised - I saw a locker filled with apples and a sign to give these teachers pet. This is a union culture of bullying, quite frankly it is pathetic.

    My eyes are rolled even harder if you pretend that doesn't exist.
     
  20. Parallel

    Parallel Established Member

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    Hmmm.


    https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/ne...e-quot-levels-cancellations-driver-shortages/
     
  21. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    I think you’ve just outed yourself as part of the problem!
     
  22. tiptoptaff

    tiptoptaff Established Member

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    Far from it. But I'm fed up of reading the answer to everything wrong with the railway is to deunionise us. Because the only reason you'd want to do that is to batter us in to submission
     
  23. StaffsWCML

    StaffsWCML Member

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    Perhaps some people may want to do that but I do not think it is a widespread thing, It is not a widespread thing outside the railways either despite misconception that everything is terrible, generally people are able to interact with an employer in a civilised manner of dialogue and most get fair treatment. The paranoia of the staff is part of the problem, not everyone in the management is out to get you!

    My view is the Railway Union protects a lot of poor staff with bad attitudes who work to rule, and fails to protect the good ones from bullying for fraternising with the enemy in the case of high performers. I have not problem with it if it does the correct things but frequently they are not serving people well. Its quite simply a bit of a folly to claim they are 'on the side of the people'.
     
  24. irish_rail

    irish_rail Member

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    Yes unfortunately on the pad to pz route we are a victim of the pairs of 5 cars forming the majority of services, which inevitably leads to staffing shortfalls all to often where only one part of the train is catered. Not just weekends it's happening either. Unless GWR plan to recruit many more caterers it will only get worse I fear.....
     
  25. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Established Member

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    Now my eyes are rolling.
     
  26. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    This is the nub of the whole franchising failure - it's not "embarrassing", because the TOCs simply don't feel any embarrassment in the way that genuinely competitive businesses might. They are almost always monopolies on their turf and act as such. They take no interest in their users' complaints or suggestions and blunder on regardless, trying to address their specific franchise requirements and nothing else (extra efforts usually mean spending money which would otherwise be profits for their shareholders). If they are actually stripped of their franchises, the parent consortia will absorb the terminations and remain faceless to the average passenger.
     
  27. irish_rail

    irish_rail Member

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    Day in day out there are a lack of catering staff causing parts of the train to have no catering. Do you think that's acceptable?
     
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