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GWR Shortage of Traincrew Weekend and During Week

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PHILIPE

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Sundays, this last week saw a number of HSS cancellations but the Regional side had none. Saturday saw a disgraceful service provided
 
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Sundays, this last week saw a number of HSS cancellations but the Regional side had none. Saturday saw a disgraceful service provided

Re. Sunday HSS - not actually that many in the end, 19:00 Bristol - Pad was the main memorable one. Lots of the other bits needing patching up was by 'race time'.
 

Parallel

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More shortage of train crews today, it seems Portsmouth/Brighton to Bristol/Cardiff services are decimated once again. Also some train faults on some of the Bristol area locals, and to top it off, sounds like there is a 150 running around on a Pompey diagram for good measure. Seems the shortage of traincrew doesn’t match the shortage of trains. Would be good if it did - might have less services cancelled :lol:
 

PHILIPE

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Today far worse. 4 Cardiff to Portsmouth Harbour trains cancelled and long gap this evening along the route due cancellations. Severn Beach and Gloucester, Bristol and Westbury areas badly hit. Doesn't augur well for the holiday period
 

Wilts Wanderer

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2O00 cancelled Swindon-Southampton due to no guard, last Melksham round trip caped due to same, 1830 Cardiff-Portsmouth pined Westbury (formed 150925) due to no forward driver, following Bristol-Frome caped throughout, following Portsmouth in doubt as well. Best part of 3hrs with no GWR services south from Westbury. What the hell is going on, it's a THURSDAY for crying out loud!
 

Tim456

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Worse in the other direction with the 18.23 (started Westbury) 19.23 and 20.23 ex Portsmouth along with the 17.02 ex Brighton all canned. Poor service from GWR on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line today.
2O00 cancelled Swindon-Southampton due to no guard, last Melksham round trip caped due to same, 1830 Cardiff-Portsmouth pined Westbury (formed 150925) due to no forward driver, following Bristol-Frome caped throughout, following Portsmouth in doubt as well. Best part of 3hrs with no GWR services south from Westbury. What the hell is going on, it's a THURSDAY for crying out loud!
 

JN114

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Worse in the other direction with the 18.23 (started Westbury) 19.23 and 20.23 ex Portsmouth along with the 17.02 ex Brighton all canned. Poor service from GWR on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line today.

With all due if there aren’t the crew then what can they do? Alternatives for customers in line with their obligations appear to have been sought/offered in all cases where they were required; the alterations appear to have been advertised quite honestly and in a timely manner...
 

JN114

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Best part of 3hrs with no GWR services south from Westbury. What the hell is going on, it's a THURSDAY for crying out loud!

Combination of high leave levels due to holiday season; high levels of sickness due to it being winter; greater number of crew required due to amended diagrams in run up to Christmas; low take up of rest day working / overtime amongst crew who are working - again presumably due to holiday season.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Combination of high leave levels due to holiday season; high levels of sickness due to it being winter; greater number of crew required due to amended diagrams in run up to Christmas; low take up of rest day working / overtime amongst crew who are working - again presumably due to holiday season.

If these were reasonable explanations then all other TOCs would be experiencing similar problems. Yet it would appear they are not. I'm afraid the blame can only be down to management failings, probably due to under-recruitment or mis-management of leave. Unless of course someone can provide reasonable evidence of some other reason...
 

Dai Corner

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If these were reasonable explanations then all other TOCs would be experiencing similar problems. Yet it would appear they are not. I'm afraid the blame can only be down to management failings, probably due to under-recruitment or mis-management of leave. Unless of course someone can provide reasonable evidence of some other reason...

Training on the Turbos?
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Training on the Turbos?

Other TOCs have managed to introduce "new" rolling stock without the training leaving them so horribly short staffed. That's done by proper forward planning. GWR appear to be severely lacking in that department. Again, unless someone can offer evidence of something else that's plausible...
 

Filton Bank

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Other TOCs have managed to introduce "new" rolling stock without the training leaving them so horribly short staffed. That's done by proper forward planning. GWR appear to be severely lacking in that department. Again, unless someone can offer evidence of something else that's plausible...
There is an awful lot of traction training going on at GWR right now, LTV drivers converting to 387, HSS to 800, West to 16X, all at the same time. The original plan as I understand it was that it wouldn't all coincide, but that went out the window a long time ago, due to the infrastructure delays.
 

PHILIPE

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I was expecting a very bad day today but no, very few and mostly short haul including several trips on the Looe Branch
 

Shaw S Hunter

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There is an awful lot of traction training going on at GWR right now, LTV drivers converting to 387, HSS to 800, West to 16X, all at the same time. The original plan as I understand it was that it wouldn't all coincide, but that went out the window a long time ago, due to the infrastructure delays.

The need for those various different traction training programmes has been known about for some time even if the actual timing has been disrupted. As I said proper forward planning would have seen GWR recruit up to the maximum "allowed" by their staffing protocols (staff agreements and contingencies being the main limiting factors) and then carried that apparent surplus over normal levels until the timing of the training programmes is definitive at which point a decision is made about how much natural wastage is required before normal recruitment resumes. It may well be that their recruitment team lacks traincrew management experience/input. Though the cynic in me says it's standard First Group penny pinching. First's appalling handling of staffing levels during the 377 training at First Capital Connect should have provided them with suitable lessons but they seem not to have learned.
 

tiptoptaff

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The need for those various different traction training programmes has been known about for some time even if the actual timing has been disrupted. As I said proper forward planning would have seen GWR recruit up to the maximum "allowed" by their staffing protocols (staff agreements and contingencies being the main limiting factors) and then carried that apparent surplus over normal levels until the timing of the training programmes is definitive at which point a decision is made about how much natural wastage is required before normal recruitment resumes. It may well be that their recruitment team lacks traincrew management experience/input. Though the cynic in me says it's standard First Group penny pinching. First's appalling handling of staffing levels during the 377 training at First Capital Connect should have provided them with suitable lessons but they seem not to have learned.

That's exactly what they did - they have now found out that the agreed maximum wasn't enough and the natural wastage was higher than expected. You can't just have a set of new drivers. Now playing catch up.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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That's exactly what they did - they have now found out that the agreed maximum wasn't enough and the natural wastage was higher than expected. You can't just have a set of new drivers. Now playing catch up.

If true then something strange is going on. Traincrew rarely move on from the job in numbers: most consider it as near to a "job for life" as you can possibly find in this day and age.
 

tiptoptaff

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If true then something strange is going on. Traincrew rarely move on from the job in numbers: most consider it as near to a "job for life" as you can possibly find in this day and age.

But if you plan for them to retire at X age and a group of them go early, what can you do about it? Nothing.
 

irish_rail

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Every HSS depot on GWR is over compliment! My own depot at Plymouth for example has 15 drivers over what we need at present so cannot blame this on GWR penny pinching etc......
 

PHILIPE

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A few today but I've seen far worse. Usual areas, Gloucester, Bristol and Westbury plus a couple of trips on Falmouth Branch. All seem to be attributed to conductors.
 

Dai Corner

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A Par-Newquay and a Westbury-Swindon round trip are down to driver shortages accordingly to Journeycheck..
 

Mag_seven

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GWR have an advert out for qualified train drivers. Problem with that is you end up "robbing Peter to pay Paul" and end up with just shifting the problem to other TOC's.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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I've said this before but I imagine the endless weekend engineering work has played a factor. Much of it has been late announced to keep the GWML infrastructure projects (upon which January is dependent) on time. There has been impact on West although admittedly less than HSS and LTV depots. Months and months of additional / amended turns culminating with a very re-written Christmas period will inevitably have built up a backlog of leave, which must be taken before the end of the year. General fatigue levels reduce enthusiasm for rest day working and overtime becomes less attractive. I think the last couple of weeks have shown that all the cards have now been played and there is nothing left in reserve. Given that much of the pain wasn't anticipated, and the delayed rolling stock cascades have made it worse, they've done well to get this far without things falling completely to pieces.

Incidentally yesterday GWR received the official authorisation to run electric trains to Didcot from January. The bulk of the Turbo cascade will happen to schedule over the holiday period and sets will gradually be rolled out across the Bristol area between January to May. It looks like all the grief and hard work will finally pay off. (Fingers crossed this Xmas goes to plan.)
 

Shaw S Hunter

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But if you plan for them to retire at X age and a group of them go early, what can you do about it? Nothing.

A good manager should have a feel for the likelihood of this happening, a poor manager isn't interested until it's too late. It's all about communication. IME of First Group managers are not particularly encouraged to engage in such niceties as actually talking to their staff in informal situations. That's how such things very often come to light.

Every HSS depot on GWR is over compliment! My own depot at Plymouth for example has 15 drivers over what we need at present so cannot blame this on GWR penny pinching etc......

But it's not HSS routes suffering mass cancellations!
 

jimm

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But it's not HSS routes suffering mass cancellations!

Try telling that to passengers on the Cotswold Line in recent weeks - they might just tell you different... and that's before you get to services that have been turned back short at Oxford - so never even getting on to the Cotswold Line - or at Worcester instead of Great Malvern or Hereford.

This morning the 05.17 from Paddington to Great Malvern ran empty stock all the way from London to Worcester, presumably lacking a train manager. Someone from the Worcester depot looks to have been available to cover the return working, but that was started from Worcester, not Great Malvern.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Try telling that to passengers on the Cotswold Line in recent weeks - they might just tell you different... and that's before you get to services that have been turned back short at Oxford - so never even getting on to the Cotswold Line - or at Worcester instead of Great Malvern or Hereford.

This morning the 05.17 from Paddington to Great Malvern ran empty stock all the way from London to Worcester, presumably lacking a train manager. Someone from the Worcester depot looks to have been available to cover the return working, but that was started from Worcester, not Great Malvern.

Curiouser and curiouser. We have a HSS driver telling us that their depot is way over complement and yet seemingly an all-round shortage of Guards/Train Managers. I wonder if the latter group are having a totally personal/unofficial rest day working ban as payback for the premature DOO dispute of many months ago? It would certainly fit with my experience of management/staff relations within First Group operations!
 

Clarence Yard

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Curiouser and curiouser. We have a HSS driver telling us that their depot is way over complement and yet seemingly an all-round shortage of Guards/Train Managers. I wonder if the latter group are having a totally personal/unofficial rest day working ban as payback for the premature DOO dispute of many months ago? It would certainly fit with my experience of management/staff relations within First Group operations!

That’s the third post you have made making a really poor assumption about current FG rail labour relations and employment policy without any actual knowledge about what is actually going on at GWR. Please stop guessing, the Lockhead/Finch days have long gone.

Wilts Wanderer is on the money - the never ending late engineering changes this year coupled with the compressed training timescales for a variety of new/cascaded stock as well as coping with all the new starters that have had to be recruited has taken it’s toll. The staff at several depots are on the floor and want their time off.

If the DfT could actually make their infrastructure subsidiary do it’s job properly then GWR could resource it’s trains better.
 
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