GWR Tender for 30 x 4 car EMUs

[JonathanH]

It's entirely possible that Akiem could be told to retrofit the 379s for 110mph at their own expense if they want the 379s to find any further use.

It's entirely possible for the 379s to find no further use. Southern may have overcrowding but I suspect it providing it with extra stock would make the losses it is making greater than they currently are since it is the short distance part of its operation that has the capacity issues.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's entirely possible for the 379s to find no further use. Southern may have overcrowding but I suspect it providing it with extra stock would make the losses it is making greater than they currently are since it is the short distance part of its operation that has the capacity issues.

Indeed a few services are a bit uncomfortable but majority of trains aren't. DfT are still plugging a big hole in GTR finances as their season ticket revenue is well down. Usage might be 92% but revenue isn't.

 

[D365]

GN 387s were probably always destined to end up with southern otherwise why would they have been built with southern doors & interior and not be removed or changed after so long. all it would take would be revinyling and minor refurb and they are ready to work on the metro routes.

The Great Northern 387/1s were ordered by Southern, that’s the only reason they were delivered in Southern spec…

 

[Occtraveller]

The 387s for GWR were a fairly late addition to the electrification plan. I'm sure I remember as late as the end of 2015, the plan was still to have a mix of 365s and 319s. Had this tender happened a bit earlier, we could still have had the 365s, but they've all been sent to the scrapyard now.

As an occasional GWR customer, it's a bit annoying to have new trains replaced by older ones! 379s are not much older though. Hopefully the 379s will get a minor refit for power/USB/WiFi, if that is what happens. Reading TCD shouldn't have too much trouble adapting, but I don't know about the similarity of drivers' cabs. Also, Wikipedia doesn't list 387s as one of the options for multiple working with 379s, which could be important for the transition period between the two fleets - but the source cited for 379 multiple working is from 2012, possibly pre-dating the existence of the 387s.

 

[43102EMR]

The 387s for GWR were a fairly late addition to the electrification plan. I'm sure I remember as late as the end of 2015, the plan was still to have a mix of 365s and 319s. Had this tender happened a bit earlier, we could still have had the 365s, but they've all been sent to the scrapyard now.

As an occasional GWR customer, it's a bit annoying to have new trains replaced by older ones! 379s are not much older though. Hopefully the 379s will get a minor refit for power/USB/WiFi, if that is what happens. Reading TCD shouldn't have too much trouble adapting, but I don't know about the similarity of drivers' cabs. Also, Wikipedia doesn't list 387s as one of the options for multiple working with 379s, which could be important for the transition period between the two fleets - but the source cited for 379 multiple working is from 2012, possibly pre-dating the existence of the 387s.

They aren’t that much older than the 387, and even have the same, if not more features than them (i.e. a seat reservation system which would be useful for when they’re on Cardiff runs) - if anything they’ll be an upgrade to the GWR network should they replace the 387s.

 

[AzureOtsu]

The Great Northern 387/1s were ordered by Southern, that’s the only reason they were delivered in Southern spec…

If their current operations wasn't a temporary measure then the southern features would have probably been removed by now, the c2c 387s are already on their way to GTR

 

[JonathanH]

If their current operations wasn't a temporary measure then the southern features would have probably been removed by now, the c2c 387s are already on their way to GTR

I dont think you can suggest that the colour of the doors and the seat coverings not being changed is a sign of only temporary operation on the GN routes being anticipated.

 

[cactustwirly]

They aren’t that much older than the 387, and even have the same, if not more features than them (i.e. a seat reservation system which would be useful for when they’re on Cardiff runs) - if anything they’ll be an upgrade to the GWR network should they replace the 387s.

But Cardiff runs are only an occasional use, only rugby specials etc.
Primarily they are for Thames Valley services so I don't see why reservations are needed.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

But Cardiff runs are only an occasional use, only rugby specials etc.
Primarily they are for Thames Valley services so I don't see why reservations are needed.

I think you’ll find the plan is for them to work hourly, so when Cardiff is half-hourly all day again it will be IEP for the Swansea and 379/387 for the Cardiff. Makes sense with the extra stops, which the 379/387 can do slightly quicker, and the journey time is likely to be almost unaffected.

Don’t forget part of the Electrostar Cardiff plan is releasing 800s to bin off Castle HSTs forever…

 

[43102EMR]

But Cardiff runs are only an occasional use, only rugby specials etc.
Primarily they are for Thames Valley services so I don't see why reservations are needed.

There’s one passenger return per day to Cardiff to retain crew traction knowledge.

 

[RailWonderer]

The 387s for GWR were a fairly late addition to the electrification plan. I'm sure I remember as late as the end of 2015, the plan was still to have a mix of 365s and 319s. Had this tender happened a bit earlier, we could still have had the 365s, but they've all been sent to the scrapyard now.

As an occasional GWR customer, it's a bit annoying to have new trains replaced by older ones! 379s are not much older though. Hopefully the 379s will get a minor refit for power/USB/WiFi, if that is what happens. Reading TCD shouldn't have too much trouble adapting, but I don't know about the similarity of drivers' cabs. Also, Wikipedia doesn't list 387s as one of the options for multiple working with 379s, which could be important for the transition period between the two fleets - but the source cited for 379 multiple working is from 2012, possibly pre-dating the existence of the 387s.

They already have plug sockets and WiFi (although connected to GA) though the seat covers and some tables would need a refit because they were yellowy and grimy. The carpets on some of them were dirty and tarred as well, but other than that they're good to go. No compatibility because the software is totally different.

 

[cactustwirly]

I think you’ll find the plan is for them to work hourly, so when Cardiff is half-hourly all day again it will be IEP for the Swansea and 379/387 for the Cardiff. Makes sense with the extra stops, which the 379/387 can do slightly quicker, and the journey time is likely to be almost unaffected.

Don’t forget part of the Electrostar Cardiff plan is releasing 800s to bin off Castle HSTs forever…

Where are you going to find the electrostars for that?
The peak time service required in the Thames Valley uses most of them...

 

[warwickshire]

www.realtimetrains.co.uk . Tuesday 28th June 2022. 5Q45 1345 Reading Depot to Peterborough Nene C.S
Also on live rail record website is showing a move by rai operations group taking a unit across for something.
Is it possible that a gwr 387 is going to Peterborough to enable GTR unit and traction knowledge to begin for the drivers. So the 379s can go to gwr afterall. With the 3871s going onto replace the 313 and some 455 services on Southern Land. Interesting if this is the case?

 

[warwickshire]

www.realtimetrains.co.uk . Tuesday 28th June 2022. 5Q45 1345 Reading Depot to Peterborough Nene C.S
Also on live rail record website is showing a move by rai operations group taking a unit across for something.
Is it possible that a gwr 387 is going to Peterborough to enable GTR unit and traction knowledge to begin for the drivers. So the 379s can go to gwr afterall. With the 3871s going onto replace the 313 and some 455 services on Southern Land. Interesting if this is the case?

Correction time of departure is 1341 From Reading Traincare Depot.

 

[43102EMR]

www.realtimetrains.co.uk . Tuesday 28th June 2022. 5Q45 1345 Reading Depot to Peterborough Nene C.S
Also on live rail record website is showing a move by rai operations group taking a unit across for something.
Is it possible that a gwr 387 is going to Peterborough to enable GTR unit and traction knowledge to begin for the drivers. So the 379s can go to gwr afterall. With the 3871s going onto replace the 313 and some 455 services on Southern Land. Interesting if this is the case?

Those are the ex-c2c 387/3s - GWR’s lease on them has expired and those 3 along with the 3 remaining with c2c are transferring to GTR this week. The move to Peterborough is for storage prior to them entering service.

 

[QSK19]

As an occasional GWR customer, it's a bit annoying to have new trains replaced by older ones!

If I can take it that you meant to say “newer” instead of “new”, welcome to EMR’s world! The Connect service lost 222s built in 2003-5 and gained 360s built in 2002-3.

It's entirely possible for the 379s to find no further use.

It would be an absolute disgrace if the 379s were binned off when they’re much newer and, I would argue, more appropriate for Connect services (gangwayed stock, 7-8 years younger than the 360s and more of them, thereby ensuring capacity to run further along the MML when it’s been fully wired up). I appreciate that’s a subjective opinion, though.

 

[Wolfie]

If I can take it that you meant to say “newer” instead of “new”, welcome to EMR’s world! The Connect service lost 222s built in 2003-5 and gained 360s built in 2002-3.

Disingenuous at best to only look at one part of EMR's fleet, particularly when the 222s and 360s are for all intents and purposes the same age and electric trains generally have a longer life. The 222s were redeployed elsewhere on EMR, not out of the fleet, to replace '70/80s era HSTs as you very well know.

It would be an absolute disgrace if the 379s were binned off when they’re much newer and, I would argue, more appropriate for Connect services (gangwayed stock, 7-8 years younger than the 360s and more of them, thereby ensuring capacity to run further along the MML when it’s been fully wired up). I appreciate that’s a subjective opinion, though.

It is highly unlikely that the 379s will be "binned off".

 

[43102EMR]

It is highly unlikely that the 379s will be "binned off".

Agreed - I have no doubt they’ll find a new home sooner or later.