GWR to operate short 'HSTGTi' sets

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by co-tr-paul, 22 Apr 2017.

  1. co-tr-paul

    co-tr-paul Member

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    To save bits of stuff being posted on the GWR Livery and Night Riviera threads and elsewhere, decided its about time that this was put in one place.
    So for those who dont yet know, some 11 sets of four car HSTs are being used for mainllne stopping services between Penzance/Plymouth/Bristol starting dec 2018 timetable in lieu of cascaded 158s which are delayed/cancelled due to IEP being behind schedule.
    They are to be fitted with CET and sliding doors. 24 power cars are being modified and will be retained after the introduction of 800/1/2 fleet. Livery will be the new green. They are expected to be in use for some time well into the next franchise.
    Coaches at Doncaster for modification currently are:
    TS:
    42093
    42168
    42177
    TGS:
    44055
    Power cars are to come from the Firstgroup owned and Angel Trains leased batches. So far, the following have had cab desk to air cubicle wiring added in readiness and a repaint:
    43093
    43188
    43194
    43198
    First set due at Plymouth in july for extensive testing before second set is done. A diagram has already been identified, m-f 0600 ex Penzance, for testing.
     
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  3. wls1

    wls1 Member

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    Will this only be for the GWR ones, as the scotrail ones are also 4-5 carriages so can technically be HSTGTIs as well.
     
  4. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Is HST GTi the official terminology? I very much doubt it, how about 'short'...
     
  5. D1009

    D1009 Established Member

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    For the benefit of numpties like me, could you explain what cab desk to air cubicle wiring is?
     
  6. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    I think the fact that co-tr-paul has put the title as "The GWR HSTGTi thread" answers your question. ;)
     
  7. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    Could somebody translate what GTi is please, as it is an acronym and I believe that acronyms are not meant to be used without first explaining what they mean?
     
  8. smiffy9373

    smiffy9373 Member

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    GTi is from the motoring term used on the VW Golf. You have a normal Golf and the faster, sportier Golf GTi. The 2+4 and 2+5 HSTs will just be faster HSTs as less weight to lug around. I believe GTi actually stands for Grand Tourer injection. It's just a nickname the short sets have been given.

    Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk
     
  9. D1009

    D1009 Established Member

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    Personally I find the term inappropriate. Is it actually GWR's intention to significantly accelerate the trains concerned? Presumably they could derate the engines to save on fuel consumption.
     
  10. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    I really wouldn't lose any sleep over it..
     
    Last edited: 22 Apr 2017
  11. MK Tom

    MK Tom Established Member

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    I believe the GTi nickname harks back to Virgin Cross Country days, on the Manchester-Scotland route?
     
  12. Rich McLean

    Rich McLean Established Member

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    They were known as challenger sets IIRC
     
  13. mic505

    mic505 Member

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    Crosscountry sets are being done now, as part of their Direct Award agreement.
     
  14. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    When was 43188 done? AFAIAA it has not been to Doncaster.

    As for the subsequent sets, that is surely dependent on IEP introduction and the need to release sets to ScotRail.
     
  15. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    I suspect that yes they are looking for the increased acceleration as it would make them closer to that of the IEP sets that will also be running on the GWML.
     
  16. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    Old news seeing as the first set should be released sometime soonish...
     
  17. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    Got nothing to do with IEPs on the GWML... It is to get closer to sprinter timings.
     
  18. CosherB

    CosherB On Moderation

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    Please, there really are more important things to worry about ....
     
  19. co-tr-paul

    co-tr-paul Member

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    The GTi nickname is used here as it is now regarded as the most popular term for these sets including within GWR. I have even heard our Fleet Engineering Manager use the term be it official or not !
    More of a Sprinter acceleration than SET... .
    43188 reported as one of the first done on livery thread, maybe someone can confirm ??

    Forgot to state that there will be trolly catering on them.
     
    Last edited: 22 Apr 2017
  20. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Indeed so, in this case it doesn't matter that a HST has a higher overall top speed than a sprinter, rather that the HST GTI's can match or come closer to the acceleration and deceleration offered by that relative to a Sprinter. The linespeeds will virtually remain the same down in the West Country (bar the sections from Exeter to Bristol to Cardiff where a HST GTI will be able to take advantage of the higher line speed), the main advantage will be the dropping of at least 3 / 4 vehicles including the heavier TRFB.
     
  21. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Indeed they were, it was continuing the space-related "Voyager" theme.
     
  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Much as 158s are OK, I can see this being a very popular move with passengers.
     
  23. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    So can I to be honest! Not least in that a Mk3 will still offer a better and slightly more expansive travel experience than a Sprinter or 158 - Better luggage space, wifi, power sockets, no underfloor engines and plenty more seats for a start. I just hope First retain enough vehicles to allow the potential of further conversions in the future!
     
  24. co-tr-paul

    co-tr-paul Member

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    As far as I am aware, seating to remain same ??
     
  25. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    So the same sh*tty cram them in, ruin the Mark 3 layout as now? Not really what is wanted for the market they will be serving.
     
  26. 47802

    47802 On Moderation

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    Why would they change the seating? I expect they will be doing the minimum to make them 2020 compliant, and with the likely high operational cost compared to a DMU whoever wins the next franchise will probably look to get rid of them, after all they are there to cover a DMU shortage not provide Intercity services like the Scotrail HST's.
     
  27. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    Ok there will probably be a thousand good reasons why but have they ever looked at putting an extra, shortened & without cab HST power car on a set to improve acceleration. Similar to the common practice in the States of A & B units on early generation diesels. Or thinking about it like on the Long Thin Drag Hastings Diesel railtour
     
    Last edited: 23 Apr 2017
  28. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Considering they'll effectively be replacing 150/1s, 150/2s and the odd 153s I see the HST layouts as an improvement. Not least I'd rather have HST than a /1 on a PNZ Stopper. Besides, they're hardly going to be used as Tourist type trains are they?
     
  29. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    So having just two bays of four per coach (or none in the TSD) is the right layout, is it? I suspect there are plenty of groups on those trains who might like to sit round a table, rather than being split up looking at a tombstone in front of them. The previous internal layout with a mix of bays and airlines would be a good one to go for.
     
  30. headshot119

    headshot119 Established Member

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    And exactly how many tables does a 150/1 have ?
     
  31. RPI

    RPI Member

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    2, one in each cab
     

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