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GWR Turbo cascade progress to Bristol region services

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D2007wsm

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Melancholia said:
Maybe if there's more Turbos going to Bristol due to GWR ordering 769s, 165/166s could mark Exeter as their territory? 8-)
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Couldn't the middle car be taken out of some of the 3 car 166s to allow the Portsmouth to run as a 3 car 166 + a 2 car 166? This would ensure the entire train is the same standard.

The extra car coach could then be put into other 166s to create some 4 coach formations around Bristol to run alongside the mini HSTs on Cardiff to Taunton?
 
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JN114

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D2007wsm said:
Couldn't the middle car be taken out of some of the 3 car 166s to allow the Portsmouth to run as a 3 car 166 + a 2 car 166? This would ensure the entire train is the same standard.

The extra car coach could then be put into other 166s to create some 4 coach formations around Bristol to run alongside the mini HSTs on Cardiff to Taunton?
Click to expand...

The longer-term plans still have the 16x fleet having a refurbished interior that would see (bar aircon/air cooling differences) all 16x at the same standard.
 
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pompeyfan

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Playing giant Hornby set, how much effort would it be to create 10 5 car turbos units by marshalling lots of centre cars? Would the train software (if it even has any) allow it? Would there be enough carriages to even allow it?
 
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JN114

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pompeyfan said:
Playing giant Hornby set, how much effort would it be to create 10 5 car turbos units by marshalling lots of centre cars? Would the train software (if it even has any) allow it? Would there be enough carriages to even allow it?
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GW 165/166 fleet is made up as thus:

36x Cl165 standard only driving cars.
16x Cl165 composite + PRM lavatory driving cars for 3 car units.
20x Cl165 composite + PRM lavatory driving cars for 2 car units.
(The seating layout of the DMOCL vehicle for 2 and 3 car 165s differs)
16x Cl165 centre cars.

21x Cl166 composite + Non-PRM lavatory driving cars.
21x Cl166 composite + PRM lavatory driving cars.
21x Cl166 centre cars.

There are no software issues precluding amending formations; although I’m not 100% sure if there aren’t other technical considerations with adding centre cars; however, if you really wanted to there are sufficient units to sensibly/uniformly reconfigure the fleet as follows:

8x 5 Car Class 166 units; utilising centre cars out of the 16x 3 car 165s.

13x unmodified 3 Car Class 166 units.

36x 2 Car Class 165 units; although 118-137 inclusive would have slightly different seating layout to 101-117.

However, as in the West Country the vast majority of sets are intended to work as single 3 cars, with doubling up only on Portsmouths, you’d reduce capacity/flexibility.
 
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pompeyfan

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JN114 said:
GW 165/166 fleet is made up as thus:

36x Cl165 standard only driving cars.
16x Cl165 composite + PRM lavatory driving cars for 3 car units.
20x Cl165 composite + PRM lavatory driving cars for 2 car units.
(The seating layout of the DMOCL vehicle for 2 and 3 car 165s differs)
16x Cl165 centre cars.

21x Cl166 composite + Non-PRM lavatory driving cars.
21x Cl166 composite + PRM lavatory driving cars.
21x Cl166 centre cars.

There are no software issues precluding amending formations; although I’m not 100% sure if there aren’t other technical considerations with adding centre cars; however, if you really wanted to there are sufficient units to sensibly/uniformly reconfigure the fleet as follows:

8x 5 Car Class 166 units; utilising centre cars out of the 16x 3 car 165s.

13x unmodified 3 Car Class 166 units.

36x 2 Car Class 165 units; although 118-137 inclusive would have slightly different seating layout to 101-117.

However, as in the West Country the vast majority of sets are intended to work as single 3 cars, with doubling up only on Portsmouths, you’d reduce capacity/flexibility.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, very informative. I appreciate operational flexibility would be lost, and if a unit had to be taken out of use due to a fault/accident, you’d lose 5 coaches from traffic, instead of 2 or 3. The only potential benefit of having 5 car units is passenger management/distribution and the trolly could serve all 5 coaches, instead of just one unit.

Some may say it’s a soloution looking for a problem, but I’m sure there’s many that if they were given the choice of a 2 car + 3 car or a fixed 5 car would prefer a fixed 5.
 
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PHILIPE

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swt_passenger

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pompeyfan

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It was in and out repeatedly. I saw the unit trundling around. Last saw it on the old banana road.
 
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Parallel

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It’s going to be a sad day when the 158s are moved off the route, but three car 158s are no longer fit for purpose on the route and I’m sure those in Devon and Cornwall will be pleased with the extra comfort!
 
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Mitchell Hurd

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Hello everyone. I'm planning to travel to Bristol Temple Meads via Bristol Parkway this coming Wednesday. GWR are busy at the moment I'd guess, so is anyone able to confirm if the 14:12 from Bristol Parkway to Bristol Temple Meads is normally booked for a Class 166? I'm thinking of travelling in the declassified First Class bit :) .
 
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JN114

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Mitchell Hurd said:
Hello everyone. I'm planning to travel to Bristol Temple Meads via Bristol Parkway this coming Wednesday. GWR are busy at the moment I'd guess, so is anyone able to confirm if the 14:12 from Bristol Parkway to Bristol Temple Meads is normally booked for a Class 166? I'm thinking of travelling in the declassified First Class bit :) .
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It is diagrammed for a 166; but today certainly it’s 150 vice 166.
 
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K.o.R

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I saw what I think was 166212 sitting in Fratton sidings this morning. That was a nice surprise!
 
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Mitchell Hurd

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JN114 said:
It is diagrammed for a 166; but today certainly it’s 150 vice 166.
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Thanks ! I understand this might have been due to the incident in the Bristol area. Unless the 166 failed / needed repairing anyway.

Well, if a 150 does end up running the 14:12 then I should be lucky at riding one of these classic reliable things!
 
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Surreyman

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Is it possible that when the 769s arrive in the Thames Valley, (assuming they work and prove reliable) we could see 165s &/or 166s moving on to Exeter?
I don't pretend to know how many diagrams present or future are involved, Could 165/166 operate all Devon & Cornwall routes and maybe displace some/all 150/2s from GWR?
I believe a rolling stock solution is still being sought for Greenford & Marlow branches.
 
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Parallel

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If they take on the 769s, I wonder if it would make sense for GWR to clear the Turbos in Devon and Cornwall where possible and share duties with the 150s. Any excess stock could be used to run some additional services/strengthen extra services or be used as depot spares (more maintenance time for units lowering the risk of unit failures). I think Turbos would be well suited for Falmouth and Exmouth due to their door layout allowing for reduced dwell times at stations & these two are quite busy routes.

GWR could then look at extending some services that it originally planned to, i.e Locals to Axminster and Okehampton and would also have sufficient stock if Portishead ever gets the go ahead. Didnt they also want Turbos to be cleared to Poole at some point? If there are no plans to run to Brighton in the future, Malvern/Bristol (or Cardiff on Sundays) - Poole Via Southampton may be a good alternative.
 
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jimm

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"If they take on the 769s"?

There is no if about it, they have been ordered. And when they enter service the clear and stated aim is to move more Turbos west.

There is a programme of route clearance for Turbos laid out in the Network Rail enhancements delivery plan - all due to be completed by the end of this year.

It is set out in eight 'groups' of a line/or lines to be cleared.

We appear to be up to Group 5 now, which is Southampton to Portsmouth. Group 6 is Portsmouth to Brighton, with Groups 7 and 8 being assorted routes around Exeter (including Exmouth and Barnstaple, but not Axminster) and Plymouth (including Gunnislake), plus the main line to Penzance and the St Ives branch (but not Falmouth).

There is no indication that the work to at least achieve clearance in the West Country will not be finished this year, even if no Turbos are seen west of Taunton in regular service until 769s start to appear in the Thames Valley.

Full details on pages 98 and 99 of the plan at this link

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/EDP-March-2018.pdf
 
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Clarence Yard

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When the 769 fleet arrives, the very provisional plan is to convert all the Exeter locals to 3 car Turbo (10 diagrams) as well as converting the two “Brighton” diagrams that are currently 158 into Turbos. That leaves some Turbos for service/formation enhancements in the Bristol area as well as some potential 158 service/formation enhancements.

Provisionally it frees up the 2 x 150/0 units and 10 x 150/2 units to go elsewhere. The remaining 10 x 150/2 operate the Cornish branches.
 
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Clarence Yard said:
When the 769 fleet arrives, the very provisional plan is to convert all the Exeter locals to 3 car Turbo (10 diagrams) as well as converting the two “Brighton” diagrams that are currently 158 into Turbos. That leaves some Turbos for service/formation enhancements in the Bristol area as well as some potential 158 service/formation enhancements.

Provisionally it frees up the 2 x 150/0 units and 10 x 150/2 units to go elsewhere. The remaining 10 x 150/2 operate the Cornish branches.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that update as I have been giving people what is now become historical info so obviously plans have altered since the decision to take the 769s was planned.
 
Apedlar12

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jimm said:
"If they take on the 769s"?

There is no if about it, they have been ordered. And when they enter service the clear and stated aim is to move more Turbos west.

There is a programme of route clearance for Turbos laid out in the Network Rail enhancements delivery plan - all due to be completed by the end of this year.

It is set out in eight 'groups' of a line/or lines to be cleared.

We appear to be up to Group 5 now, which is Southampton to Portsmouth. Group 6 is Portsmouth to Brighton, with Groups 7 and 8 being assorted routes around Exeter (including Exmouth and Barnstaple, but not Axminster) and Plymouth (including Gunnislake), plus the main line to Penzance and the St Ives branch (but not Falmouth).

There is no indication that the work to at least achieve clearance in the West Country will not be finished this year, even if no Turbos are seen west of Taunton in regular service until 769s start to appear in the Thames Valley.

Full details on pages 98 and 99 of the plan at this link

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/EDP-March-2018.pdf
Click to expand...

If all this to happen, then what is going to happen to the 158s?

upload_2018-5-27_14-2-24.png
 
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Parallel

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jimm said:
"If they take on the 769s"?

There is no if about it, they have been ordered. And when they enter service the clear and stated aim is to move more Turbos west.

There is a programme of route clearance for Turbos laid out in the Network Rail enhancements delivery plan - all due to be completed by the end of this year.

It is set out in eight 'groups' of a line/or lines to be cleared.

We appear to be up to Group 5 now, which is Southampton to Portsmouth. Group 6 is Portsmouth to Brighton, with Groups 7 and 8 being assorted routes around Exeter (including Exmouth and Barnstaple, but not Axminster) and Plymouth (including Gunnislake), plus the main line to Penzance and the St Ives branch (but not Falmouth).

There is no indication that the work to at least achieve clearance in the West Country will not be finished this year, even if no Turbos are seen west of Taunton in regular service until 769s start to appear in the Thames Valley.

Full details on pages 98 and 99 of the plan at this link

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/EDP-March-2018.pdf
Click to expand...
Thanks for the additional information. Interesting there are no plans to clear them to Newquay or Falmouth but there are to St Ives.
 
superalbs

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Parallel said:
Thanks for the additional information. Interesting there are no plans to clear them to Newquay or Falmouth but there are to St Ives.
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Even more interesting is Gunnislake. I thought there was a length restriction that prevented 2x153 running up there - and a 165 or 166 is of equal or greater length to that.
 
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JN114

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superalbs said:
Even more interesting is Gunnislake. I thought there was a length restriction that prevented 2x153 running up there - and a 165 or 166 is of equal or greater length to that.
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153s don’t have the same body front taper that 150s et al do; so on some of the very tight turns the corners of the adjoining 153s could end up touching.

Due to tapering the 150s (a 3 car has been used on the branch relatively recently) and 16X fleet won’t have the same constraint.
 
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