GWR Turbo cascade progress to Bristol region services

[Dai Corner]

To be honest, the whole thing is a nonsense. If the train is booked on Platform 1 the stock needs to be cleared for Platform 1. Why is this even being debated?

I think you started the debate?

 

[jayah]

What's the time penalty for a train using platform 1 instead of platform 2 and how does it compare with the time to negotiate the stairs or lifts?

Perhaps I shall quote myself?

If the train is booked on Platform 1 the stock needs to be cleared for Platform 1. Why is this even being debated?

 

[jayah]

I think you started the debate?

Try #300.

I agree, others don't to the point of making specious arguments about train services to Ebbw Vale that don't even exist or whether people can run over Newport footbridge faster than the staff can dispatch a HST.

 

[jayah]

An HST minimum two signals back from a sprinter at Llanwern will not catch up with said sprinter before Newport, because they are too close. It would only happen if said sprinter got held at a red signal at East Usk or outside Newport platform 1. The sprinter will cross to the relief at 60mph, and by the time the HST gets to the next signal on the main after the crossover it will be braking for the 40mph speed restriction outside Newport.

Fascinating, but still fails to explain how the service will run on time if the Taunton can't use platform 1. Which is after all. The Point.

 

[Dai Corner]

Try #300.

I agree, others don't to the point of making specious arguments about train services to Ebbw Vale that don't even exist or whether people can run over Newport footbridge faster than the staff can dispatch a HST.

I don't think anyone disagrees that Turbos not being able to use Platform 1 at the moment is a disadvantage. The discussion has been about how the additional flexibility provided by the new platform and signalling can be used to mitigate this temporary restriction.

My point about the footbridge was that if a train had to be put in Platform 1 instead of 2 and that caused a delay as you suggested passengers might not mind as it would be more convenient for them and they might even reach the street earlier than they would have.

 

[Mintona]

You are wriggling very hard to try and avoid accepting the bleeding obvious which is that Taunton - Cardiff on Plat 1 is a regular move and needs to be cleared for the rolling stock booked to use it.

I have not once suggested that this isn’t the case. My original post was to pull you up on the fact a down HST never overtakes a sprinter/turbo between Severn Tunnel Jn and Newport, and you’ve been moving the goalposts around the argument since then.

 

[JN114]

If it needed to be cleared before entering service; then it would have been. Funnily enough that’s how the railway works.

As it happens; the very highly paid; very highly qualified; very highly experienced people who actually make these decisions have concluded that the various restrictions and necessary mitigations are sufficient to enable the 166 fleet to enter traffic to Cardiff. As such on shifts I’ve been working I haven’t noted a single delay go down to a turbo not being gauge cleared for platform 1 and causing congestion as a result. Now I appreciate I can’t be in the office 24/7 so there may be other times where it has. But given the apocalypse hasn’t happened if indeed one of these Turbos has delayed something; I think it’s a decision well made.

 

[Johncleesefan]

Well the turbo could be routed into p3 instead and the cross to the relief at gaer? As they depart around 4 mins before the hst that would be sufficient time to clear the section. Only problem then is up trains needed the platform at the same time


Is it also noted that you can’t get to Cardiff from platform 4?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Well the turbo could be routed into p3 instead and the cross to the relief at gaer? As they depart around 4 mins before the hst that would be sufficient time to clear the section. Only problem then is up trains needed the platform at the same time


Is it also noted that you can’t get to Cardiff from platform 4?

From platform 4 at Newport to Cardiff? It is possible. Did it on a 175 a few weeks ago.

 

[Mag_seven]

If it needed to be cleared before entering service; then it would have been. Funnily enough that’s how the railway works.

As it happens; the very highly paid; very highly qualified; very highly experienced people who actually make these decisions have concluded that the various restrictions and necessary mitigations are sufficient to enable the 166 fleet to enter traffic to Cardiff. As such on shifts I’ve been working I haven’t noted a single delay go down to a turbo not being gauge cleared for platform 1 and causing congestion as a result. Now I appreciate I can’t be in the office 24/7 so there may be other times where it has. But given the apocalypse hasn’t happened if indeed one of these Turbos has delayed something; I think it’s a decision well made.

Indeed - the decision re introducing Turbos now with the restriction at Newport P1 was probably made considering the small number of Turbos that are currently using Newport at the moment, with the correction at P1 being made in time for full service introduction. Its called pragmatism!

 

[83G/84D]

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I have missed it. Will turbos be working Bristol > Weymouth services?

Class 166 workings to and from Weymouth due to start in February 2018.

 

[Johncleesefan]

From platform 4 at Newport to Cardiff? It is possible. Did it on a 175 a few weeks ago.

Unless it’s been resignalled and my company failed to brief me, p4 Newport in the down can only signal you towards the ebbw branch

 

[jayah]

If it needed to be cleared before entering service; then it would have been. Funnily enough that’s how the railway works.

As it happens; the very highly paid; very highly qualified; very highly experienced people who actually make these decisions have concluded that the various restrictions and necessary mitigations are sufficient to enable the 166 fleet to enter traffic to Cardiff. As such on shifts I’ve been working I haven’t noted a single delay go down to a turbo not being gauge cleared for platform 1 and causing congestion as a result. Now I appreciate I can’t be in the office 24/7 so there may be other times where it has. But given the apocalypse hasn’t happened if indeed one of these Turbos has delayed something; I think it’s a decision well made.

That's a bit like saying that if we needed to do any additional preparation before the Iraq war, we would have. All those clever people can't possibly be wrong. Can they?

That's not how the railway works at all, as witnessed by thread after thread after thread. In this case it is probably very little work to resolve, all the more maddening given the sums spent to make the railway more flexible adding Platform 4.

 

[bastien]

In this case it is probably very little work to resolve,

Probably very little. And there you are accusing others of being blasé.

 

[jayah]

I have not once suggested that this isn’t the case. My original post was to pull you up on the fact a down HST never overtakes a sprinter/turbo between Severn Tunnel Jn and Newport, and you’ve been moving the goalposts around the argument since then.

Fascinating but again not really the point as I have explained the timetable doesn't work unless the work is done.

Probably very little. And there you are accusing others of being blasé.

Perhaps I seen too many assurances that it is all being taken care of. As there is barely a month to go, it can't actually be a lot of work unless they aren't planning to sort this in the near future.

 

[PHILIPE]

Unless it’s been resignalled and my company failed to brief me, p4 Newport in the down can only signal you towards the ebbw branch

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P17011/2017/12/13/advanced

 

[Dai Corner]

Perhaps I seen too many assurances that it is all being taken care of. As there is barely a month to go, it can't actually be a lot of work unless they aren't planning to sort this in the near future.

Please try to accept the assurances and not worry overmuch. The worst that can happen is you're a few minutes late getting to Cardiff if you happen to be travelling via Newport around the same time as the five trains a day from Bristol booked to use P1. I'm sure that in fact everything will run to time.

Feel free to come back and say 'I told you so' if the whole of South Wales grinds to a halt due to a platform alteration.

 

[Mintona]

Fascinating but again not really the point as I have explained the timetable doesn't work unless the work is done.

It was literally the point you were making.

 

[Johncleesefan]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P17011/2017/12/13/advanced

Please accept my humblest apologies. I have checked my route map and indeed p 4 can route you to UM and now DM via a 25mph crossover. I wasn’t briefed lol

 

[PHILIPE]

Please accept my humblest apologies. I have checked my route map and indeed p 4 can route you to UM and now DM via a 25mph crossover. I wasn’t briefed lol

Not to worry. When the line is blocked east of Newport as has been the case recently towards Bristol Parkway, trains are turning back from 4 all day.

 

[WelshBluebird]

So apparently there is no service this weekend on the Severn Beach line passed Clifton Down due to extra trains being run to Bath for the Christmas market. Does this mean one of the Turbos is being used to run through Bath? (Also, that is pretty poor treatment of the SB line from GWR, especially considering the reliability issues of present).

 

[Dai Corner]

So apparently there is no service this weekend on the Severn Beach line passed Clifton Down due to extra trains being run to Bath for the Christmas market. Does this mean one of the Turbos is being used to run through Bath? (Also, that is pretty poor treatment of the SB line from GWR, especially considering the reliability issues of present).

There was a Turbo on Taunton-Cardiff's yesterday, presumably releasing a 15x for the additionals to Bath.

 

[PHILIPE]

There was a Turbo on Taunton-Cardiff's yesterday, presumably releasing a 15x for the additionals to Bath.

There has been for several Saturdays now, not connected with Bath

 

[Halish Railway]

Can't GWR used an off lease HST for extra services to Bath? EMT are putting extra trains on for the Lincoln market without disrupting services.

I thought that GWR were supposed to boost capacity in Bristol all round by using Turbos.

 

[PHILIPE]

So apparently there is no service this weekend on the Severn Beach line passed Clifton Down due to extra trains being run to Bath for the Christmas market. Does this mean one of the Turbos is being used to run through Bath? (Also, that is pretty poor treatment of the SB line from GWR, especially considering the reliability issues of present).

There's something suspicious about this one. People on the Severn Beach line were tweeting GWR yesterday about the Clifton Down situation and that there was no publicity put out by GWR. The reply was that it was due to Engineering Work and were referred to the appropriate Engineering Work section on the GWR Website but, there was no mention there. Twitter team said they would feed the lack of info back. The Bath shuttle, which was running between Westbury and Bristol Temple Meads, was a pair of 150s. RTT code the Severn Beach alterations as due to Request of Operator.

 

[PHILIPE]

Can't GWR used an off lease HST for extra services to Bath? EMT are putting extra trains on for the Lincoln market without disrupting services.

I thought that GWR were supposed to boost capacity in Bristol all round by using Turbos.

It might sound stupid but the answer is NO, NO, NO unless they went through the process of leasing them back. Are there any off lease ones still lying about, anyway ?

 

[WelshBluebird]

There's something suspicious about this one. People on the Severn Beach line were tweeting GWR yesterday about the Clifton Down situation and that there was no publicity put out by GWR. The reply was that it was due to Engineering Work and were referred to the appropriate Engineering Work section on the GWR Website but, there was no mention there. Twitter team said they would feed the lack of info back. The Bath shuttle, which was running between Westbury and Bristol Temple Meads, was a pair of 150s. RTT code the Severn Beach alterations as due to Request of Operator.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPgtIr_WsAEVW8Z?format=jpg

Not sure which station this was from but it was tweeted out by the pilning station account and then picked up by the friends of suburban Bristol railways.

For those who can't see or go to the link, it's a poster from a station saying that train services are curtailed at Clifton Down this weekend due to the bath market.

If people yesterday were saying there was no info, is the poster only at maybe one or two places, or has it been put up last night!

 

[jimm]

So apparently there is no service this weekend on the Severn Beach line passed Clifton Down due to extra trains being run to Bath for the Christmas market. Does this mean one of the Turbos is being used to run through Bath? (Also, that is pretty poor treatment of the SB line from GWR, especially considering the reliability issues of present).

There may not have been trains past Clifton Down yesterday. There are today, which was still part of the weekend the last time I looked.

Can't GWR used an off lease HST for extra services to Bath? EMT are putting extra trains on for the Lincoln market without disrupting services.

I thought that GWR were supposed to boost capacity in Bristol all round by using Turbos.

You have answered your own question. Once an HST is off-lease, that's it - no longer GWR's to use and on its way north for overhaul to Scotrail's specification. I expect someone can explain how EMT provides its Lincoln extras - presumably using marginal time in some cases where a train would otherwise be sat in a station or sidings between duties, rescheduling maintenance, etc.

The fact that GWR has been short of dmus in the West of England since 2006 isn't exactly a secret. All new arrivals since then have simply been playing catch-up with existing demand, rather than allowing for growth or to better cope with special events.

The big move of GWR Turbos to Bristol does not happen until the end of this year, when the start of Class 387 operations to Reading and Didcot frees up a substantial part of the Turbo fleet. From January more than half of the 165/166 fleet will be based in Bristol but at the moment only a limited number of sets are in use there.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Was it a case of providing train crews for the Bath shuttles rather than providing units? Doesn't justify the lack of advance info of the suspension of the Severn Beach trains though.

 

[43096]

It might sound stupid but the answer is NO, NO, NO unless they went through the process of leasing them back. Are there any off lease ones still lying about, anyway ?

There’s a set of trailers at Ely, but the power cars are in Brush. Plus two sets stopped at Laira for handback.