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GWR Turbo cascade progress to Bristol region services

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Class 33

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I read a posting on here recently with a link to an official GWR document detailing GWR's upcoming service improvements and changes over the coming year or so. I can't seem to find that posting and document now. But interestingly it did mention that from May 2017 some GWR Turbo's will be cascaded to run on the following services:

Cardiff Central-Portsmouth Harbour (some in 5-car formations)
Bristol Temple Meads-Weymouth
Bristol Temple Meads-Great Malvern
Severn Beach line services

I'm looking forward to seeing and riding some Turbo's around this region! Might do a trip down to Weymouth and/or Portsmouth on an upcoming Summer Saturday if Turbo's will be running these services!

Anyone confirm if this is still actually happening from this month?

Oh and in fact just found that document now http://www.avocetline.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/October-2015-GWR-Franchise-Update-MK3.pdf

MAY 2017

90mph air-conditioned Turbo's, equipped with Wi-Fi, will be deployed on Cardiff-Portsmouth services as well on key services between Cardiff, Bristol, Weston-Super-Mare, and Taunton.

Turbo trains will be deployed on both the Cardiff-Portsmouth and Portsmouth-Bristol-Brighton routes, consequent to the introduction of EMUs in the Thames Valley.

Portsmouth-Cardiff services will be predominantly operated with 5-car Turbo trains, with the Class 158s cascaded to other services in the West.

Turbo trains will work services to Weymouth, Gloucester, Great Malvern and Westbury.
 
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Clarence Yard

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It's all gone backwards, thanks to the electrification delays. First up, in July, should be the Severn Beach services. Then in the autumn there should be a couple of diagrams between Weston and Parkway.

The Big Bang happens (subject to NR route clearance) from January 2nd when Turbos appear, in rapid stages up to the middle of March, on most Bristol radial routes. That will then mean 14 x 166 and 4 x 165/1 2 car diagrams for SPM based units.

Pompey to Cardiff has to wait for December 2018 for full Turbo operation but it is hoped to introduce 5 car working on one or two "out and home" SPM diagrams on the route from late summer onwards as the Turbo C6 and SDO programme winds down. Until then it will be 3 car units, augmented on some diagrams from this December with 2 car 150/158 units.
 

Kite159

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Yay comfortable 2+2 regional express units replaced by 3+2 suburban units on long journeys between Portsmouth & Cardiff...

... said nobody ever :(
 

TH172341

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I have to say when you compare having a Turbo with a 158, I'd far rather have the latter on the Cardiff-Portsmouth runs. The Turbo may offer more seats, but hardly suitable for those doing the longer journeys on that route.
 

FenMan

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Yay comfortable 2+2 regional express units replaced by 3+2 suburban units on long journeys between Portsmouth & Cardiff...

... said nobody ever :(

I thought that GWR had committed to convert the west-bound turbos to 2+2 seating - or is that another thing that has gone backwards?
 

superalbs

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I have absolutely no source other than a Facebook group, but apparently 166208 is now officially allocated to Bristol and will enter service after a C4, or something.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Once the Portsmouth-Cardiff services reach Reading from Portsmouth, once the GWR electrification is done would they be under the wires all the way? If they will be, would GWR have been better off using Class 800/0s (extra build) and then using the Turbos on shorter routes?
 

cactustwirly

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I have absolutely no source other than a Facebook group, but apparently 166208 is now officially allocated to Bristol and will enter service after a C4, or something.

I doubt it, GWR are short of turbos since the departure of the 180. So I wouldn't​ expect a cascade until December
 
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pdeaves

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Once the Portsmouth-Cardiff services reach Reading from Portsmouth, once the GWR electrification is done would they be under the wires all the way? If they will be, would GWR have been better off using Class 800/0s (extra build) and then using the Turbos on shorter routes?

The Portsmouth-Cardiff services don't go anywhere near Reading. They do Southampton-Westbury-Bath.
 

jimm

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I doubt it, GWR are short of turbos since the departure of the 180. I wouldn't​ expect a cascade until December

Well 166204 definitely went to Bristol for some reason last week, seen in a picture taken by Martin Loader at Uffington. The Bristol drivers certainly need something to drive so they can train on Turbos...

http://hondawanderer.com/166204_Uffington_2017.htm

They aren't 'short' of Turbos - or am I missing the daily series of cancellations in the Thames Valley? - just that diagramming is tight, so nothing that new there, given the need to have sets away at Wolverton for a long time now for DDA modifications.

When electrics reach Maidenhead in May then a few more sets can migrate west to allow the Severn Beach changeover in the summer, as noted above. More will follow after Christmas when the 387s reach Didcot.

The plans to further modify the Turbos - notably 2+2 seats in 166s and air cooling for 165s (similar to Chiltern's 165s) - have also been put back as a result of the electrification delays - lots of the Turbos were supposed to have been released from Oxford and Newbury services last December, allowing this sort of work to start, alongside the transfers west.

Since the last round of modifications to the 166s' air conditioning at Long Marston last year, it does seem to be a bit more robust, though after 20-odd years of problems and remedial efforts, I do wonder whether it might not be best to scrap the air con and fit air cooling in the 166s as well.
 
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FGW_DID

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I have absolutely no source other than a Facebook group, but apparently 166208 is now officially allocated to Bristol and will enter service after a C4, or something.

I doubt it, GWR are short of turbos since the departure of the 180. So I wouldn't​ expect a cascade until December

Well 166204 definitely went to Bristol for some reason last week, seen in a picture taken by Martin Loader at Uffington. The Bristol drivers certainly need something to drive so they can train on Turbos...

http://hondawanderer.com/166204_Uffington_2017.htm

They aren't 'short' of Turbos - or am I missing the daily series of cancellations in the Thames Valley? - just that diagramming is tight, so nothing that new there, given the need to have sets away at Wolverton for a long time now for DDA modifications.

When electrics reach Maidenhead in May then a few more sets can migrate west to allow the Severn Beach changeover in the summer, as noted above. More will follow after Christmas when the 387s reach Didcot.

The plans to further modify the Turbos - notably 2+2 seats in 166s and air cooling for 165s (similar to Chiltern's 165s) - have also been put back as a result of the electrification delays - lots of the Turbos were supposed to have been released from Oxford and Newbury services last December, allowing this sort of work to start, alongside the transfers west.

Since the last round of modifications to the 166s' air conditioning at Long Marston last year, it does seem to be a bit more robust, though after 20-odd years of problems and remedial efforts, I do wonder whether it might not be best to scrap the air con and fit air cooling in the 166s as well.

Yet again a post crops up, claiming there is a shortage of Turbos at GWR - not true, no idea why this 'rumour keeps circulating?

There are enough turbos to cover all the required LTV diagrams. If there are any extra commitments required, all that happens is that it impacts our capability to 'stop' units for routine maintenance, exams, component changes etc.

As it stands Mon - Fri we have the capacity to stop 5 units (this does include sets away at Wolverton or Tyre turning etc), as Jimm mentions diagramming is tight but we are not short and certainly haven't been in the 4 years I've been doing this job. Yes there may be formation changes and some diagrams may be uncovered but that is down to units failing on departure.

Turbos currently in the West at St Phillips Marsh:
165124 - reformed after receiving repairs for collision damage, will return to Reading TCD on completion of exam work.

166208 - C4 work being carried out, unsure if this will stay or return to Reading.

166216 - Staff training.

There is also a daily path, which runs as required, for Driver training (which is probably what 166204 was doing as mentioned by Jimm above)

3U77 Reading TCD - St Phillips Marsh
3L80 St Phillips Marsh - Reading TCD
 

Envoy

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Could we end up with a situation where 2 & 3 coach 158’s are operating in Devon & Cornwall and 4 & 5 coach 165/6’s on routes through Temple Meads? If so, it really does make me wonder why GWR can’t split the fleets so that 158’s could operate as 4 & 5 coach trains (where needed) with the benefit of the through corridor whilst the 165/6’s operate where 2 & 3 coach trains are required.
 

Kite159

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I thought that GWR had committed to convert the west-bound turbos to 2+2 seating - or is that another thing that has gone backwards?

Proper 2+2 seating, or will they do a C2C style 2+2 style seating (as found on the 357/3s) which is more "3-1"+2 seating, massive aisle but the two seats together without an arm-rest to separate them.

I fear that commitment will quietly be dropped
 

Parallel

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Proper 2+2 seating, or will they do a C2C style 2+2 style seating (as found on the 357/3s) which is more "3-1"+2 seating, massive aisle but the two seats together without an arm-rest to separate them.

I fear that commitment will quietly be dropped

Hmm, me too. Having used Turbos occasionally, I'm not sure they are very suitable for Portsmouth to Cardiff runs. With a proper refurbishment of decent seats, they'd be okay. Are they even fitted with tables (barring the first class and ex-first class areas)?

There's usually shortforms listed from the Thames Valley on journey check, so I'm waiting for when some services are formed of 1 x 165 or 1 x 166 to Portsmouth or Brighton which, in my opinion isn't much better than a 150/1 or a 150/9 anyway!

Also, the 165s and 166s aren't fitted with SDO, so will it be retrofitted? Or else Turbos in multiple won't be able to call at stations like Dilton Marsh and Avoncliff, and also won't be able to stop at Freshford, Thornford, Yetminster and Chetnole if they are working in multiple...
 

fgwrich

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Given that the cascades are now very much delayed and that mini HSTs are to be used on the Cardiff / Taunton / Exeter / Plymouth & Penzance routes (which is where the 158s were due to be cascaded too), arnt we getting a little too ahead of ourselves? I don't doubt that we'll be seeing Turbo operated services on the services radiating from Temple Meads within the next year, but as the HSTs are replacing the 158s, Surely the 158s are staying for some time yet on Cardiff / Portsmouth?

And yes, I do agree that the 166s are hardly suitable for this route as well.
 

jimm

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Hmm, me too. Having used Turbos occasionally, I'm not sure they are very suitable for Portsmouth to Cardiff runs. With a proper refurbishment of decent seats, they'd be okay. Are they even fitted with tables (barring the first class and ex-first class areas)?

There's usually shortforms listed from the Thames Valley on journey check, so I'm waiting for when some services are formed of 1 x 165 or 1 x 166 to Portsmouth or Brighton which, in my opinion isn't much better than a 150/1 or a 150/9 anyway!

Also, the 165s and 166s aren't fitted with SDO, so will it be retrofitted? Or else Turbos in multiple won't be able to call at stations like Dilton Marsh and Avoncliff, and also won't be able to stop at Freshford, Thornford, Yetminster and Chetnole if they are working in multiple...

Obviously GWR was just telling fibs about refurbishment and reseating and fitting SDO and intermediate door controls for guards and is keeping everything crossed that no one notices... naturally they wouldn't have a clue about the short platforms at certain stations after running the trains that serve them for the past decade...

The 166 centre cars have had an area of tables and 2+2 standard class seats since they entered service in 1993.

Short-forms in the Thames Valley... they aren't exactly unknown further west, are they? At about 5.15pm today, the West was winning 5-2, though it was also offering three-car formations instead of a two-car on a couple of services.

And while the Turbos really could do with a thorough makeover and new 2+2 seats, they are a much better piece of kit than a 150/1 and robust mechanically. With their wider bodyshells, there might even be room for some armrests...
 
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swt_passenger

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I don't doubt that we'll be seeing Turbo operated services on the services radiating from Temple Meads within the next year, but as the HSTs are replacing the 158s, Surely the 158s are staying for some time yet on Cardiff / Portsmouth?
Wasn't that already confirmed in the first reply made by "Clarence Yard"?
 

Class 33

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It's all gone backwards, thanks to the electrification delays. First up, in July, should be the Severn Beach services. Then in the autumn there should be a couple of diagrams between Weston and Parkway.

The Big Bang happens (subject to NR route clearance) from January 2nd when Turbos appear, in rapid stages up to the middle of March, on most Bristol radial routes. That will then mean 14 x 166 and 4 x 165/1 2 car diagrams for SPM based units.

Pompey to Cardiff has to wait for December 2018 for full Turbo operation but it is hoped to introduce 5 car working on one or two "out and home" SPM diagrams on the route from late summer onwards as the Turbo C6 and SDO programme winds down. Until then it will be 3 car units, augmented on some diagrams from this December with 2 car 150/158 units.

Ah OK, so a bit of a delay then. I thought there probably would be. Though not long to wait till July and some appearing on the Severn Beach services. Looking forward to see and riding them(albeit for only very short journeys) on those services soon.
 

Class 33

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Yay comfortable 2+2 regional express units replaced by 3+2 suburban units on long journeys between Portsmouth & Cardiff...

... said nobody ever :(

I have to say when you compare having a Turbo with a 158, I'd far rather have the latter on the Cardiff-Portsmouth runs. The Turbo may offer more seats, but hardly suitable for those doing the longer journeys on that route.

Oh yes, I had forgot about the 3+2 seating on the Turbo's. Not as comfortable as the 158 seating with there being no arm rests between seats. And not comfortable to be sitting in the middle seats if the train is busy!(I avoid sitting on those middle seats). And when the trains are busy, with the gangways being so narrow with the 3+2 seating and people's legs overhanging the gangways, it's not so easy to walk down those gangways!

But then, if the trains will be 5-car formations instead of 2 or 3 car 158's, then that's an improvement in seating capacity.....

But I'm looking forward to it. Seeing and riding the Turbo's in this region. The Turbo's have a different feel to them to ride on compared to the 158's. Will be a pleasant change to the same old same old 158's we've had on these services(in particular the Portsmouth-Cardiff services) for nearly 30 years now.
 

jimm

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Oh yes, I had forgot about the 3+2 seating on the Turbo's. Not as comfortable as the 158 seating with there being no arm rests between seats. And not comfortable to be sitting in the middle seats if the train is busy!(I avoid sitting on those middle seats). And when the trains are busy, with the gangways being so narrow with the 3+2 seating and people's legs overhanging the gangways, it's not so easy to walk down those gangways!

But then, if the trains will be 5-car formations instead of 2 or 3 car 158's, then that's an improvement in seating capacity.....

But I'm looking forward to it. Seeing and riding the Turbo's in this region. The Turbo's have a different feel to them to ride on compared to the 158's. Will be a pleasant change to the same old same old 158's we've had on these services(in particular the Portsmouth-Cardiff services) for nearly 30 years now.

As has previously been explained on this forum and elsewhere, GWR plans to give the 166s an internal makeover, with 2+2 seats throughout - except where benches of three seats hide the engine coolant header tanks.

The 3+2 train formations on Cardiff-Portsmouth would be a 166 and a 165, presumably with the intention being to put longer-distance passengers with advance tickets/reservations on the 166, keeping the 165 for those getting on and off along the way.
 

Envoy

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A pity that new bi-modes are not ordered for the Portsmouth to Cardiff service - which perhaps could have an extension to Swansea. Even as things stand, 1 hour of the journey - the Cardiff to Bath leg - will be under wires. So, bi-modes would have been a chance to get better value out of the costly electrification project.
 

221129

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A pity that new bi-modes are not ordered for the Portsmouth to Cardiff service - which perhaps could have an extension to Swansea. Even as things stand, 1 hour of the journey - the Cardiff to Bath leg - will be under wires. So, bi-modes would have been a chance to get better value out of the costly electrification project.

You mean Patchway to Cardiff. Not really worth it for 32 miles.
 

Parallel

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A pity that new bi-modes are not ordered for the Portsmouth to Cardiff service - which perhaps could have an extension to Swansea. Even as things stand, 1 hour of the journey - the Cardiff to Bath leg - will be under wires. So, bi-modes would have been a chance to get better value out of the costly electrification project.

Bi-modes may be a good idea for the route! Not too sure about extension of the services as the punctuality of the route isn't the best, and I think extending the services further would cause more problems than it would solve (terminating short, or causing congestion on the SWML).

If the Maesteg/Cheltenham trains are split eventually, the Cheltenham trains could run to/from Swansea calling at the Swanline stations (with alternative ones running to/from Worcester??) or when the wires go up, an EMU service between Swansea and Cardiff. Swansea - Bath Spa would probably work as an extra service too but I can't see it happening unfortunately, although once the wires are up it would make sense to run Bath - Cardiff as an extra service as they will be fully under the wires, unlike Taunton - Cardiff.
--

It's weird to think The Severn Beach line will be getting Turbos operating soon - Only a few years ago it had Class 143s!
 
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BestWestern

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Wires to Bath won't be happening any time soon, I wouldn't think.

The Turbos will cater for short platforms not by SDO, but with the fitment of a 'local door' control which will allow the leading or trailing door of a unit to be released. This will be done from within the saloon, by the Guard. ASDO is expected for those sets remaining in the Thames Valley, I'm unsure if we'll see it on the West cascades.
 

D1009

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Wires to Bath won't be happening any time soon, I wouldn't think.

The Turbos will cater for short platforms not by SDO, but with the fitment of a 'local door' control which will allow the leading or trailing door of a unit to be released. This will be done from within the saloon, by the Guard. ASDO is expected for those sets remaining in the Thames Valley, I'm unsure if we'll see it on the West cascades.
What stations on the current Cardiff to Portsmouth service will not accommodate a 5 car 165/166 formation?
 

MatthewRead

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Bi-modes may be a good idea for the route! Not too sure about extension of the services as the punctuality of the route isn't the best, and I think extending the services further would cause more problems than it would solve (terminating short, or causing congestion on the SWML).

If the Maesteg/Cheltenham trains are split eventually, the Cheltenham trains could run to/from Swansea calling at the Swanline stations (with alternative ones running to/from Worcester??) or when the wires go up, an EMU service between Swansea and Cardiff. Swansea - Bath Spa would probably work as an extra service too but I can't see it happening unfortunately, although once the wires are up it would make sense to run Bath - Cardiff as an extra service as they will be fully under the wires, unlike Taunton - Cardiff.
--

It's weird to think The Severn Beach line will be getting Turbos operating soon - Only a few years ago it had Class 143s!
How about Bi mode 319's:D
 

Parallel

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What stations on the current Cardiff to Portsmouth service will not accommodate a 5 car 165/166 formation?

This mainly applies to morning and evening services but I believe Dilton Marsh, Avoncliff, Freshford and possibly Patchway? Would all be too short for a 5 coach Turbo.

Then you also have stations on the Weymouth line when services are strengthened (summer or Xmas markets.)
 
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