1. This is the last week to take part in the survey commissioned by Network Rail in conjunction with Middlesex University on the subject of suicide prevention on the railways - and as it's such an important topic (and a very well constructed survey) we wanted to give this particular survey a bit more visibility. You can find out more and take part in the survey if you wish by taking a look at this thread - deadline is 16th September.

Had problems taking pictures of the railways?

Discussion in 'Photography Advice & Discussion' started by Snapper, 1 Apr 2008.

  1. Snapper

    Snapper Established Member

    Messages:
    2,129
    Joined:
    28 May 2006
    Location:
    All over the place
    A colleague and I are carrying out a survey of incidents involving enthusiasts having problems at stations when talking photographs, so we'd like you to post your experiences here.

    What we'd like are details of the station, who the staff were (ie where they from a specific TOC, NR, BTP, CSOs or private security) and important details of the incident, including the date.

    If you'd rather be anonymous on the forum, feel free to PM me with the details instead.
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. class 313

    class 313 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,479
    Joined:
    10 Dec 2005
    Location:
    St Albans
    I have had 3 separate incidents.

    1) Victoria:-
    At London Victoria, I was with a fellow member on the forum here, waiting for a pair of T'n'T spoons to arrive on the Pullman. We even asked SET staff on what platform it would arrive on. The tour then came in, the other member of the forum quickly got the shot of the spoon that was on the blocks then moved up to the front one. I stayed to try and get a better shot. Whilst we were doing this, the people who were on-board the tour came out to get shots as well, but this was on the other platform. A member of BTP police came up to me to ask why I was taking pictures, blatantly ignoring the big (growing) mass of photographers on the platform next to the one I was on. The BTP officer then asked me to stop taking photos and stood in front of my camera. I said "please can I take one shot and I'll move off". He said "no" and then said "right, can I have your details?". Whilst giving my details down, the group of photographers that were on the other platform started shouting such things as "Careful, he may have a bomb!" And "Don't keep him for too long, he might bring out a weapon". After taking down the details, the owner of Riviera trains came down and spoke to the BTP officer and then offered to send me a picture of the 47 in question. I then gave him my details to send a photo.

    2) Finsbury Park:-
    I was generally photting on the fast lines, behind the yellow line, then a member of staff came up to me and told me that I was standing over the line, when I actually wasn't. He then said that the offices adjacent to the station which apparently has something to do with the BTP (Can someone certify?) had called up and said I was acting suspiciously. I was then forced to move on or get the next train off the station.

    3) Balham:-
    I was again with another member of the forum, waiting for the Buffer Puffer 4.0 Railtour to pass. We weren't planning it to be a serious place to get a photograph, it was just a "fill in" move till the next place we had planned to get the tour. Anyway, we had set up at the end of the platform but still within the sign posted areas and the yellow line. When a member of Southern station staff came up to us and said something along the lines of "You're not aloud to take photographs here". So we explained to him, how NR welcome photters to their stations and how it doesn't say anywhere that we are not aloud to take any photos. He was not having it! He threatened us with calling the BTP, we then packed up and moved down the station to get on a 455 to realise it wasn't going to where we wanted it to go. So we got back off. Knowing the 37s would be the next thing to pass, we waited on the platform anyway. The same member of staff then came out again and accused of hiding! We explained to him the reasons for getting back off but he wasn't having it again! He then called the BTP (apparently) with a so called mobile phone, which later we found out that it was actually just his hand. We got a photo (not the best) of the tour, but not without another fight. I put the camera up to my eye with him then saying "are you taking a picture?" I just laughed. He then barged into me/pushed me. I got the photo and said "Yes, I was taking a photo" He then walked back into his office, and we got the next train out of the station.
     
  4. D306

    D306 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,239
    Joined:
    9 Apr 2007
    Location:
    somewhere concrete
    Well, I was on the London Underground, at Kings Cross. I'd just taken this picture http://trainpicz.fotopic.net/p47634025.html and then as the train was leaving, I was going to get another shot of it departing. While I was getting ready to click my shutter, a member of staff came along and told me to put it away. I didn't even have my flash sticking up on my camera (Fuji S5700), nor a tripod out for that matter. I've taken quite a few pictures on LUL and not been told to put my camera away. I didn't argue, so I put it away, and then got the next H+C train towards Whitechappel.

    I don't think there's been another time where I've been told to put my camera away or told to leave the station premesis.
     
  5. Julian G

    Julian G Established Member

    Messages:
    3,510
    Joined:
    9 Jun 2005
    1) Ealing Broadway (oct 06 same date when 43167 was being named Deltic 50), i was taking phots of Turbos- this FGW came up to me and said to me did I have permission, i said no, he told me to wait outside the waiting room, he eventually came back and took me into the office, the head honcho asked what i need permission for, i said school project on FGW, he gave me permission and said i must hand back the little card that he gave me

    2) Clapham Jn. (27/01/08)- i was taking a photo of this dreadful unit, then as the 159 left the staff that can be seen in the photo came up to me, said if i had permission to take photos, i told them that I had been to the station millions of times (truly shocking :o ) and nobody ever stopped me for permission, they said this time i needed it, i left the station without further argument

    3) St.Pancras- Crappest excuse Ever
    I was taking a phot of the Eurounits at the station at the end of the platform with a Tripod, this St.Pancras guy comes up to me and tells me that the Police would arrest me if they see me having a tripod (thats absolute bollocks as I was in the station 3 days earlier with my tripod in front of 10 police officers and not one stopped me), so i packed me tripod and left the station (and I never came back since!)
     
  6. Coxster

    Coxster Established Member

    Messages:
    9,244
    Joined:
    9 Jun 2005
    Liverpool Street. My Dad and I were photting some top-n-tailed 47s that were working the Norwich services (we weren't expecting them and happened to be at the right place at the right time). Despite other enthusiasts taking shots, a security bloke came up to us and put his hands over our lenses. This kinda annoyed Dad and he got into an argument with the security man (using the phrase "You're nothing but a jobsworth" several times...), which attracted the attention of one of the other photters who strolled up and said "I was taking photos - would you like to harass me to?". After about ten minutes the security chap said "You're scaring me" and called for a 'superior'. His 'superior' quickly turned up in the form of a BTP officer who had no problem with us being there. After telling the security guy to go, he apologised to us and said that if the train was due back again then we were welcome to go back and take shots.
     
  7. 5872

    5872 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,280
    Joined:
    28 Jan 2007
    Location:
    A6-EHF
    Today :shock: - I was at Hayes and Harlington doing some video, and two security guys came and asked me and my dad to leave, when we hadn't even done anything and asked us to send a letter to FGW Head office :shock:, we were only doing train spotting, he said ''what are you doing hear, Trainspotting obviously:shock:.


    Jeez If they want to know that spotters are on the platforms just ask when they go to the station not tell them to leave and say there never aloud back without permission.


    I think Any spotter/veg or somone who goes to a Station for a phot, should be aloud. If national rail say its ok why do we get security or BTP asking for permission or why we are at Stations?.


    Petition anyone, I'm sure we could score a few hundred votes.
     
  8. P156KWJ

    P156KWJ Established Member

    Messages:
    4,133
    Joined:
    26 Nov 2007
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Nottingham station: The ticket inspectors on the concourse usually have no problem with you going through (it sort of gives it away if you are there reguarly with a bag saying 'Canon' on it :lol:) and the other week, went down to P3, and was filming a 222 leaving. Some security guy (who I see knocking about there reguarly) waited til I'd finished that shot, then asked 'is there any particular reason why you're filming sir?' (he was obviously bored that day) and I explained, then told me in future to go to the station supervisor's office on 3B. I don't mind doing that, but there is no specific info as to where it may be otherwise.
    Suprisingly, at Birmingham New Street, I didn't get a second glance by anyone!

    This reminds me... I am planning to go to Clapham Junction for the first time sometime soon, are there any people / TOCs I have to contact first, cos I just can't be bothered with the fuss and embarassment on the day.
     
  9. Jim

    Jim Established Member

    Messages:
    3,135
    Joined:
    11 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Wick
    I've never had a REAL problem

    Swindon: and that was with a security bloke, but he said he'd "Look the other way this time" but in future I should inform someone first.

    Bristol TM: A member of staff told me that I should have a word with him first, before doing night shoots with a tripod, I accepted and told him the on;y reason why I didn't is because there wasn't any upon arrival.

    Cardiff: Security bloke comes up and asks me to speak to the DSM if I want to take shots, in fairness it was of a 60 on a rugby day...

    Thats really all, and they haven't exactly been big problems. I often visit; Exeter, Salisbury, Soton, Eastleigh, Westbury, Bristol, Newport, Cardiff and many other places without problems.
     
  10. thefab444

    thefab444 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,692
    Joined:
    27 Oct 2006
    Location:
    The New Forest
    Not had any problems except with staff unable to understand "Passengers must not cross the line" signs and thus asking me to move from the better photographic spots, Bath Spa Up Platform and the western end of Platform 2 at Clapham Junction, neither of which are pointed out as being out of bounds for passengers, indeed the "Passengers must not pass this point" sign is at the end of the respective platforms.
     
  11. Nym

    Nym Established Member

    Messages:
    8,104
    Joined:
    2 Mar 2007
    Location:
    Somewhere, not in London
    Only ever known of had the one problem on piccadilly, was with a driver souting, not at me, but somone else, have mentioned this before thoough...
     
  12. David

    David Established Member

    Messages:
    5,111
    Joined:
    9 Jul 2005
    Location:
    Scunthorpe
    Topic tidied.

    Please remember, this is a thread to say when and where you have had problems with staff when taking photos.
     
  13. Gavelex

    Gavelex Member

    Messages:
    461
    Joined:
    9 Sep 2006
    Location:
    london
    Last Weekend: Cockfosters - Driver comes up to me and a friend, asks us what the hell we are doing, we said "Just going around getting photographs and numbers". he says: "Well do it on someone elses train". Then at Southgate (where we had stoped to collect somthing off a member of station staff) took a picture of the train coming in, not rearlising it was his train, the words "PI$$ OFF YOU TRAINSPOTTERS" ecko loudly around the station due to the cab door being open AND OVER THE TRAIN PA
     
  14. 5872

    5872 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,280
    Joined:
    28 Jan 2007
    Location:
    A6-EHF
    Ive not boutherd with tube photting, the staff you were getting somthing off was it the train driver?.
     
  15. Gavelex

    Gavelex Member

    Messages:
    461
    Joined:
    9 Sep 2006
    Location:
    london
    No, my mate was working at the station.
     
  16. RJ

    RJ Established Member

    Messages:
    7,320
    Joined:
    25 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Rail replacement bus cab
    I was photting the NMT at Euston today and noticed the staff having a go at a mate, another photter on the other platform. After it departed, the staff espied us and a couple of them started shouting. I continued the conversation I was having with who I was with, then acknowledged the staff, who told us if we didn't move, they would get us arrested. After politely asking them on what grounds we would be arrested on, one said tresspass. Seeing we had valid tickets and the area was not out of bounds, I wasn't going to pander so easily. They tried the psychological confusion card by talking bullsh*t which undermines me greatly. I asked the staff how we were trespassing, which all but succeeded in them intensifying their furore, doing no more then shouting at us to get off their property and feverently pointing towards the exit. It was proving fruitless to reason with them and the NMT was gone, so we slowly and calmly made our way to the concourse. The NR staff being unnecessarily vehement persisted with their unjust persecution, pointing and complaining about our lack of celerity, ushering us to speed up :roll:

    They then got jumped into their tee and drove to the concourse and summoned the first officers they could find (PCSOs), their complaint being that we took too long to initially respond to them (they were shouting 'OI' at us), not that we were trespassing funnily enough. I was as polite to the police as they were to me and after a few pleasant words were exchanged, the police soon let us on our way.

    I then went to the other platform to witness what was happening after the unjustified aggression those staff were showing us. My mate was arrested, not my place to tell why here.
     
  17. 37412

    37412 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,253
    Joined:
    5 Dec 2007
    Not a certain Mr D causing riots again was it? I'll have to have a word with him next time I see him, and for 37402 and 87015 thats without Marmalade :oops:
     
  18. class 313

    class 313 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,479
    Joined:
    10 Dec 2005
    Location:
    St Albans
    But you quoted the guidelines stating you could be told on to move on. They don't need a reason. So to deliberately wind them up by going slower isn't gunna help things.
     
  19. Ian Macavoy

    Ian Macavoy Member

    Messages:
    11
    Joined:
    23 Apr 2007
    Location:
    Poole Quay
    I have had to move at least five people off the running line i the past, at New Milton last year we had delays of up to a hour, because someone wanted to shoot a steam train from the four foot, i have been abused by people that were not in a position of safety just to get a picture, i could go on and on, most of the people i meet pop into the office to say hello tell me what they are doing and ask whats about, on most station these days station staff are spread thin on the ground, we will be the first to get the blame if anything goes wrong, its not always easy when you have lots of people about, and as a foot note, i have been involved in at least 2 deaths of people getting that great picture.
     
  20. RJ

    RJ Established Member

    Messages:
    7,320
    Joined:
    25 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Rail replacement bus cab
    You don't seem to have read/understood the guidelines which you cherish so;

    The vituperation and feral attitude the NR staff were showcasing didn't go any way to explaining why it was necessary to move, not by any stretch of the imagination. We did comply with their request, but their persecution continued, even when I stopped to tie my laces. It's just as well they knew not to falsely accuse me of trespass in the presence of the police as I would have more than willingly taken it to court if I had been falsely arrested as a result.

    Sorry, but I won't accept culpability for riling them when it was clear there was a heated exchange of words going on elsewhere. IMO I was behaving with prudence - I knew they were summoning the police so why should I have walked quickly? I wouldn't want to give them the idea that I thought I had committed a crime and wanted to avoid them would I...?
     
  21. Phoenix

    Phoenix Established Member

    Messages:
    2,019
    Joined:
    11 Mar 2008
    Location:
    birmingham
    this is to Rj about yesterday....................
    Yeah i was their i was the guy who walked off the second your mate got abit loud i think he told them they were talking out their a**es not exactly the best way to go plus well we already got all the shots we needed just no clag shot plus he was using flash that was quite annyoing for the driver.
     
  22. RJ

    RJ Established Member

    Messages:
    7,320
    Joined:
    25 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Rail replacement bus cab
    Small world eh - why did the staff come to you in the first place?
     
  23. Phoenix

    Phoenix Established Member

    Messages:
    2,019
    Joined:
    11 Mar 2008
    Location:
    birmingham
    well because the nmt was there and me and your friend were taking pictures of it but then he started using flash,and actually to the extent he had to keep apologising to the nmt driver i just said i dont think you should do that but he carried on so the staff were alerted.
    I mean no offence to your friend but he pushed it.
     
  24. Snapper

    Snapper Established Member

    Messages:
    2,129
    Joined:
    28 May 2006
    Location:
    All over the place
    When you say "the staff were shouting", were they NR or Virgin staff?
     
  25. RJ

    RJ Established Member

    Messages:
    7,320
    Joined:
    25 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Rail replacement bus cab
    NR staff in blue hi-viz jackets.
     
  26. Beaker

    Beaker Established Member

    Messages:
    1,488
    Joined:
    4 Sep 2005
    Location:
    Not the drawing room
    Surely if you were or your mate was using flash ,and got shirty at the NR blokes you should of seen what was coming for you ?
     
  27. RJ

    RJ Established Member

    Messages:
    7,320
    Joined:
    25 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Rail replacement bus cab
    Read the above posts again - I was not using flash or on the same platform as my mate.

    What was coming for me? The police made it crystal clear that I and the person I was with were fine to continue what we were doing :???:
     
  28. motherwell334

    motherwell334 Member

    Messages:
    103
    Joined:
    6 Jan 2008
    Location:
    Motherwell
    I was asked to stop taking photos in edinburgh waverley by NR staff i showed them my railway id card and they became extremly rude so i put a complaint into the duty manager.
     
  29. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    43,235
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    That's one of the reasons I don't like the guidelines, at least in their current wording. If you take it literally, enthusiasts can't gather round departure boards for example.

    Anyway, the guidelines have no legal powers. RJ did nothing illegal so they had no right to suggest he could be arrested.

    I hope you took a photo of the abusive staff. RJ. If you did, please send it to NR so that the culprits can be identified and re-trained.
     
  30. RJ

    RJ Established Member

    Messages:
    7,320
    Joined:
    25 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Rail replacement bus cab
    I did get them on camera - I won't pursue it this time as I got the shots I wanted and the matter was amicably settled by the CSOs.

    The only part of the guidelines with any litigating connotations is the "General" section - some foolish people confuse the word 'guidelines' with 'legal document'. It's nothing short of pig-headed to attempt to use them as the backbone of an arguement.

    Anyway, why should one need use them against railway staff? If one understood and abided by them, the staff would already be aware of exactly what one is doing. I know for a fact that Balham has a station supervisor.

    To me, the word guideline in such a context connotates common sense - to misuse them suggests having a deficiency of it. However that's only my subjective view - has anybody succesfully used them to get railway staff to leave them alone?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    At smaller stations when I'm waiting for something to come, I often break the ice with the supervisors or ticket office staff by introducing myself and cadging some gen. For example when chasing the Shepperton SERCO (aiming for 10 sightings next time it runs), I went to one particular medium sized station and asked the staff to look up where 1Q14 was. It was a good 30 minutes away, the staff were surprised that I (not looking like a typical spotter) was into trains and knew about the headcodes and routing etc. I was invited to take a seat in the office and had a lengthy chat with the half-dozen staff, very pleasant. I was able to keep an eye on the SERCOs progess as well. When the 37s were around the corner, I went to the end of the platform - the driver recognised me, and the BTP appeared (getting off a 455) just as it was thrashing past :shock:. They stood behind me and waited until I stopped videoing, then asked why I was filming trains. I explained myself then they were on their way - no doubt some people would have snapped at them that they had permission (note, the guidelines do not equate to having permission), but I didn't need to mention it - I merely explained I was an enthusiast and the train was unusual and of interest. Diplomacy (especially with the authorities) will get you a long way.

    Those who have had problems at staffed stations, did you bother to make yourself known to the staff beforehand? If you're planning anything which takes longer than a spur of the moment point-shoot-leave, it is necessary to do so. After all, what can anybody tell you if you've already spoken to the DSM or supervisor?
     
  31. Beaker

    Beaker Established Member

    Messages:
    1,488
    Joined:
    4 Sep 2005
    Location:
    Not the drawing room
    By not following the guidlines of signing in at the station are you defficient of common sense ?
     

Share This Page