Had problems taking pictures of the railways?

[Ferret]

I'm unable to read any recent youtube comments from my present location so I can only imagine what has been said in the last few hours.

As regards your excellent point about poor management and also a point you made earlier about staff training, I have one thing to say - safety briefs. They're mandatory for all staff at my TOC, and I'm sure all other TOCs too. A 2 minute section on enthusiast photography wouldn't be that difficult to put together and slot into a brief would it?

The poor management angle is probably accurate in some cases but not all and I think it's a mixture of that and some staff making up the rules as they go along in many cases tbh. I don't know about you but if I'm unsure about something, I check before I go and make a complete tit of myself by blundering on and then being confronted by irrefutable evidence to the contrary! In this case, the security guard was offered advice by a colleague (of a senior grade) and chose to ignore it. That to me is a fundamental error of judgment and would justify *at the very least* words of advice being offered by his manager.

To illustrate my point - remember that Macclesfield incident? Poor management in the first instance when it was suggested he couldn't use his video camera and then as the footage went on, it became clear that the VT member of staff was behaving in an inappropriate manner and not dealing with the incident professionally. If she got a Form 1 over that, could anybody have any objections???

 

[berwickspotter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbpk9dm8dLo

Oh dear!!! Error!

shocking ferret and what a bloody disgrace i hope heads roll over this i really do

 

[Gavelex]

Right, a few things I need to clear up.

I was doing a long exposure of the train when the guard started talking - the first part of what he said is not "on the tape".

The Instructor is a good friend of mine, and he and myself had quite a long chat with the Line Standards Manager for the District line face to face the day after. The LSM was not at all amused and had the drivers name in about 2 minutes, the Security Guards and the Supervisor are not LUL employees so all the LSM can do is forward his anger to c2c.

The LUL Traffic Circular (weekly publication with different notices for that week in) has had a whole page about photography and what is and isn't allowed for about the last 18 months, so there is no excuse for the the District line driver as all staff should read all sections of the Traffic Circular.

The LUL CoC only has anything about photography in section 4.5 - so this is the only section that can be reasonably quoted. I did not go "prepared for battle" in any sense - do you really think we went out wanting to get stoped?





For the record:

4.5. For safety reasons, on our buses and Underground trains and in our bus and Underground stations you must not:
•smoke
•use cycles, roller skates, roller blades, scooters, skateboards or similar equipment
•take flash photographs and/or use a tripod or other camera support equipment
•use emergency exits except in an emergency or when instructed to do so by our staff
You may be prosecuted for disobeying these requirements.
Additionally:
•on our bus services, you must board or alight from the vehicle only at official bus stops except in places where we advertise the bus service as being operated as ‘hail and ride’
•on Underground trains you must not use the interior doors between the carriages except in an emergency or when instructed to do so by our staff
•on our buses and Underground trains and in our bus and Underground stations, you must not consume alcohol or be in possession of an open container of alcohol.

For your personal security, all London’s buses and most bus stations are monitored by CCTV cameras. Most Underground trains and stations are monitored by CCTV cameras.

CCTV images are recorded for the purpose of crime prevention, detection, legal proceedings and public safety. Images of alleged offenders may be passed to the police and be used in a court of law.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

Well, I fear that driver's employment may well be terminated (certainly my employers would dismiss a driver who took an unauthorised person into the cab) so that's possibly just one anti-enthusiast LUL employee. He too could face a disciplinary over his conduct. Still, as you say, this isn't what you'd call a positive outcome at all!

More importantly, I take your point arising from those examples you've gone through but on both occasions you weren't being confronted by a security guard with no intention of using his ears properly. Also, playing devil's advocate slightly, what if those members of staff had been 'the one' - you know, the awkward b*****d/a******e we all encounter from time to time? No matter how polite you were, he wouldn't accept your point and you were prevented from doing as you wished and indeed as you were entitled by the guidelines we talked about yesterday? Would you seek redress of some kind?

I do take your point about the uninformed on Youtube but posting it there also serves a purpose - it brings to a wider audience exactly what nonsense enthusiasts have to put up with. That may ultimately do us some good.

Is it actually true that letting someone into the cab is a sackable offense? What if the train is stopped and shut off at a station? A lot of glasgow drivers/ticket inspectors if you ask they will let you in the cab.

 

[Gavelex]

Is it actually true that letting someone into the cab is a sackable offense? What if the train is stopped and shut off at a station? A lot of glasgow drivers/ticket inspectors if you ask they will let you in the cab.

The difference is that she was sitting in the Instructors seat and clearly going somwhere.

In practise though, if you have a clean record on LU, cab rides tend to go "un-noticed" unless you are one of the people that has a million SPADs in the first 6 months driving/keeps getting called up for things.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

Yeah I can imagine.

 

[Ferret]

Right, a few things I need to clear up..... the Security Guards and the Supervisor are not LUL employees so all the LSM can do is forward his anger to c2c.

Interesting! So if he's not working for LUL, what business does he have going onto the LUL platforms at Upminster to harrangue photographers then if he is employed by c2c?

 

[Gavelex]

Interesting! So if he's not working for LUL, what business does he have going onto the LUL platforms at Upminster to harrangue photographers then if he is employed by c2c?

None.

 

[Ferret]

Oh dear. That disciplinary charge for him sounds ever more likely if that's the case!

 

[lifeboat1721]

I've only had trouble at Heysham lancs,

But there is a Nuclear power station there, Stopped and searched by the "Nuclear Police" "Btp" wern't bothered..

You may have already seen this link.

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/2009/05/14/uk-photographers-rights-v2/

Ian

 

[martyn29]

Latest, I wouldn't advise anyone to go to Northallerton as TPE have now said that Taking photos or videos at the station is prohibited due to the nature of the high speed line that runs through the station, they feel there is risk to members of the public. You are not allowed to take photos or videos unless it is a professional organisation which has the express permission of TPE public relations manager, in consultation with the station manager, who would have to risk assess the request before such activity could take place.

 

[alexdodds]

Latest, I wouldn't advise anyone to go to Northallerton as TPE have now said that Taking photos or videos at the station is prohibited due to the nature of the high speed line that runs through the station, they feel there is risk to members of the public. You are not allowed to take photos or videos unless it is a professional organisation which has the express permission of TPE public relations manager, in consultation with the station manager, who would have to risk assess the request before such activity could take place.

Once again another example of TOC's having no respect for us. Its Network Rail property not theirs and I will take no notice of them. Northallerton is a popular station and if they are banning us we should fight back.

 

[Aictos]

If that's the case, surely FTPE's approach would apply to Prestonpans managed by FSR?

Wonder what the First Group Rail Director or the FTPE MD's views are....

 

[alexdodds]

If that's the case, surely FTPE's approach would apply to Prestonpans managed by FSR?

Wonder what the First Group Rail Director or the FTPE MD's views are....

I ve sent an e-mail to FTPE about Northallerton and all other stations they manage should get a reply in the next few days.

Is it banned at Prestonpans despite FSR saying enthusiasts are welcome on their stations.

 

[Ferret]

"All Britain's Train Operating Companies and Network Rail welcome rail enthusiasts to their stations. The following guidelines are designed to ensure you have a safe and enjoyable experience in the pursuit of your interest"

Hmm, don't see any mention of Northallerton as an exception here. Another pile of toss. If there's a risk to the members of the public intending to take photos, then that would generally mean that customers wishing to board a train would be at risk too. Better close the station down then!

 

[Aictos]

As long as you're not putting yourself in danger ie walk onto the track area at the end of platforms to get that perfect shot, I can't see any problems.
You guys provide a extra pair of eyes which is good, plus others can enjoy your work as I've done many times.

In fact, one of the photos submitted for the last photo of the week competition is now being used as both my own laptop wallpaper as well as the wallpaper on the office PC.

 

[lifeboat1721]

What I would say is that the last time I was at "Lancaster" The chap on the "PA" kept on putting messages out saying "Attention Steam Buffs" the "Tornado" was just passing sertain points.

I suppose that is what I would class as good communication .

It was a lousy a nite and "Tornado" shot through so it was a waste of time

Ian

 

[Snapper]

Latest, I wouldn't advise anyone to go to Northallerton as TPE have now said that Taking photos or videos at the station is prohibited due to the nature of the high speed line that runs through the station, they feel there is risk to members of the public. You are not allowed to take photos or videos unless it is a professional organisation which has the express permission of TPE public relations manager, in consultation with the station manager, who would have to risk assess the request before such activity could take place.

Exactly who in TPE has said this?

 

[alexdodds]

Ok I have just got an e-mail from FTPE and this is what their customer relations advisor said.

Dear Alex Dodds

Thank you for your email dated 19 November 2009 regarding the information you have heard about not being allowed to take photos and record at the station.

I am unaware that it has been banned altogether, however you would always need to seek permission from the station manager to be able to take photos or record at any station. If you would like to arrange to try and do this, please do not hesitate to contact me with the relevant information and I will happily seek permission from the station manager on your behalf and respond to you accordingly.

Thank you for contacting First TransPennine Express about this matter.

So it turns out that martyn29 must of come across some jobsworth that was not aware of the rules.

Here some friendly advice and I am sure some of you will agree if you are going to mention a ban such as no photography at a certian station do find some proof of evidence first to avoid panic.

 

[Ferret]

Even FTPE Customer Relations have it wrong! Permission off the Station Manager is not required at all! It's asked that out of courtesy you inform the Station Manager of your presence and even that is not compulsory. I suggest you mail TPE Customer Relations a copy of the ATOC guidelines and invite them to read and digest.

 

[eos]

-----

 

[Snapper]

Thanks for the clarification eos. That paints a very different picture.

 

[alexdodds]

Whenever I video i never wave my hand to sound the horn. I just leave it for the driver to do if he/she wants to.

 

[37401]

I think the norhallerton thing has something to do with 10-15odd enthusiasts standing over the yellow line and waving their arms like mad, I never went on this "meet" but ive seen the photos and videos, I only ever wave at the driver to say goodbye when leaving a station after ive been on it,

after ive got off a train I always wave say "see ya and cheers" to the driver and staff

I dont see the big froth with horns, i once did put a few vids with train horns on and they seened to have the most views and comments (vid removed now) just dont get it, if you want the dirver to sound the horn ask him/her at the station, that way he/she knows there is nowt wrong.

you have to see it from the station staffs point of view, do you really want to see some young lads fall under a speeding train just to get "hits" on youtube

 

[Ferret]

Thanks for the clarification eos. That paints a very different picture.

Doesn't it. Yet again the kiddy veg are fouling it up for everyone else:roll:

Memo to all kiddy veg who think that the use of the horn is somehow "hellfire mylordz oh my god I've wet my pants", you'll find the rulebook is very specific about when the horn can be used and in these days of OTMR downloads you're basically asking a driver to risk a bollocking from their DTM for using the horn inappropriately. Now perhaps you might consider growing up a little?

 

[37401]

Doesn't it. Yet again the kiddy veg are fouling it up for everyone else:roll:

Memo to all kiddy veg who think that the use of the horn is somehow "hellfire mylordz oh my god I've wet my pants", you'll find the rulebook is very specific about when the horn can be used and in these days of OTMR downloads you're basically asking a driver to risk a bollocking from their DTM for using the horn inappropriately. Now perhaps you might consider growing up a little?

Well said, I feel a youtube video coming on

another reason is all this using flash and tresspassing jazz, at wolverhampton yesterday some guy took a shot of a 67 and used flash, fair deal if you forget to turn it off as long as you say sorry and turn it off but to take 3-4 shots with it.

also at bescot I saw a veg and I swore blind he walked up the platform ramp, people like this really grind my gears and one day im just going to go nuts at someone that does it, maybe when they were little you could walk alongside the track but now its against the law

follow the rules or suffer the consiquences, from now on if I see anyone use flash or tresspass ill take a photo and send it to BTP, I urge others to do this too and hopefully we can give train enthusiasts a good name



here we have a video of those responsible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk-XrQRvoDU

too many people at the station IMO, over the yellow line, asking for horns

HSTcerney (3 months ago)
i went to this meet got a headache everyone was like GGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTT TTTTTTTTTTTT BBACCCCCCCCCCKKKK

yeahhh there is a reason for that mate!

 

[Old Timer]

In BR days Drivers had no problem with flash photography. Indeed many specials resulted in trains arriving at the stops to a fusilade of poppuing flashguns and flashbulbs !

Saltleyman can verify this I am sure, having once worked a 58 into Paddington on a failed train !

I really do not know where this paranoia about flash photography has recently come from.

If a Driver finds it distracting then I respectfully suggest that they are not in the ideal job.

As far as the loss of vision argument is concerned, does this happen when photos are taken at parties, do's, etc ?? Of course not. Yet another example of people rushing of into hysterics over something that is not actually a problem

 

[37401]

yeah, What I mean is the whole rule thing, if someones breaking them then a station may tighten the rules

 

[Old Timer]

yeah, What I mean is the whole rule thing, if someones breaking them then a station may tighten the rules

Personally I think the rules are ridiculous in many ways, for example how can standing at the extremity of a platform using a tripod cause any risk to fare paying punters ?

And does a monopod count as a tripod ?

I would suggest women pushing puschairs and men riding / walking around with bikes are more dangerous.

I have never heard of any injury caused by a tripod, but I cannot say that of bikes and puschairs !

This solely British approach to having to issue instruction, and guidance, and prohibitions, and rules really does get one down when you look at the European perspective.

 

[Ferret]

In BR days Drivers had no problem with flash photography. Indeed many specials resulted in trains arriving at the stops to a fusilade of poppuing flashguns and flashbulbs !

Conversely, why the bloody hell would you use a flash anyway? Just leads to a crap photograph!!!!!