Had problems taking pictures of the railways?

[leewoods60019]

I had a problem a while back when I first got in to train enthusiasm. It was at meadowhall and I am 15 and i was filming voyagers passing up and down, and causing no problem to anyone else, obeying by the rules and i sat down next to two other enthusiasts and one of them said to the other guy that the northern rail people (further along our platform) told him not to film here. they came over to us and said the person next to me you can't film or photo traisn you'll need a platform ticket if you want to stay on the platform YET he never said anything to me about it?? isn't this discrimination against the older adults here? and they didn't have name badges either. Very suspicious behaviour from Northern Rail here! I never returned to the shopping centre or train station either. about a week or two after someone jumped off the bridge over platforms 1 and 2 and committed suicide. Whatever happened I don't know!

 

[rmt]

I had a problem a while back when I first got in to train enthusiasm. It was at meadowhall and I am 15 and i was filming voyagers passing up and down, and causing no problem to anyone else, obeying by the rules and i sat down next to two other enthusiasts and one of them said to the other guy that the northern rail people (further along our platform) told him not to film here. they came over to us and said the person next to me you can't film or photo traisn you'll need a platform ticket if you want to stay on the platform YET he never said anything to me about it?? isn't this discrimination against the older adults here? and they didn't have name badges either. Very suspicious behaviour from Northern Rail here! I never returned to the shopping centre or train station either. about a week or two after someone jumped off the bridge over platforms 1 and 2 and committed suicide. Whatever happened I don't know!

As far as I know, Meadowhall Interchange has Northern staff in the ticket office only, when it is open. I can recall seeing security staff on the platforms before, but I believe that they are employed by the Shopping Centre to provide a presence for the car park and surrounding area.

I've never had any problems with staff before when I've been there.

 

[leewoods60019]

As far as I know, Meadowhall Interchange has Northern staff in the ticket office only, when it is open. I can recall seeing security staff on the platforms before, but I believe that they are employed by the Shopping Centre to provide a presence for the car park and surrounding area.

I've never had any problems with staff before when I've been there.

I think it was something to do with a guy with binoculars (it was disguised as a bomb) set off and blew up a train or something. I'm not sure of the location but thats what someone told me

 

[rmt]

I think it was something to do with a guy with binoculars (it was disguised as a bomb) set off and blew up a train or something. I'm not sure of the location but thats what someone told me

Thats actually quite laughable.

When I get home from work later, I'll explain why...

 

[alexdodds]

Went into Sunderland station to watch a few trains today. I didnt have my camera but i had a nice, friendly chat with the station supervisor. He says its ok to take photos and videos there as long as enthusiasts inform the supervisor first and dont use flash and a tripod.

A few occasions in the past i almost couldnt film there because of it been underground but he said the BTP had given him advice on photography. If the station had been under Nexus control you would of needed written permission from them.

The station is now photoworthy now that the improvements on the platform are nealy done.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WA48YpxnRo

Oh dear looks like another enthusiast has fallen foul of London Underground's rules at Harrow and Wealdstone.

 

[Mr Spock]

Did not watch the clip but have been at H&W a couple of times recently and took a few photos with no problems, there was even a BT officer wandering around the last time which was this week.

 

[Bittern]

<SNIP>

I watched that clip, and I was agreeing with the enthusiast right up until the end with that quite immature swearing. That's not going to do anyone any good and makes the enthusiast look like a 12 year old on a hissy fit.

 

[alexdodds]

Went up to Aberdeen for the first time today and what a hassle it was getting permission to video. The staff are quite strict there.

Firstly i went to reception there and spoke to a lady what i wanted to do but she said no however she was just a conductor. I then phoned my mam and she phoned up ScotRail customer relations. SR phoned up Aberdeen and the travel centre at Aberdeen told them that no one had asked permission. So my mam told me what SR had said to her. I had to go to the travel centre and then the leader in the travel centre phoned up the duty manager. The duty manager said it was ok. you can see what i mean when i say hassle.

The duty manager then radioed the barrier staff so i was able to go through and video but however platform access is limited.

You can only go onto a platform where a train is due to arrive on or is due to depart from and when it goes out or everyone has left you have to move off the platform. Same manner as Blackpool North i think.

This is why I regard SR for been more strict than any other TOC.

 

[class156]

i've not had any trouble from staff at any station before, although i've had trouble with a particular bus driver when I was taking a picture of his bus, he stopped the bus and told me that I am not allowed to take pictures and I replied "yes I am", the bus driver replied "no you aren't", i then said "I am in a public place, and as such i'm allowed to take pictures if I want to", the bus driver replied with "it's against the rules", I then asked him "what rules", by this time the bus driver knew he wasn't going to win, shut the doors and drove off, I haven't had any trouble from him since.

 

[alexdodds]

Am on holiday in London and once again it went wrong at Liverpool Street. The duty manager said i would be allowed to take pictures on the concourse but not on the platforms. That station has as much charm as a dogs dinner.

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

Went up to Aberdeen for the first time today and what a hassle it was getting permission to video. The staff are quite strict there.

Firstly i went to reception there and spoke to a lady what i wanted to do but she said no however she was just a conductor. I then phoned my mam and she phoned up ScotRail customer relations. SR phoned up Aberdeen and the travel centre at Aberdeen told them that no one had asked permission. So my mam told me what SR had said to her. I had to go to the travel centre and then the leader in the travel centre phoned up the duty manager. The duty manager said it was ok. you can see what i mean when i say hassle.

The duty manager then radioed the barrier staff so i was able to go through and video but however platform access is limited.

You can only go onto a platform where a train is due to arrive on or is due to depart from and when it goes out or everyone has left you have to move off the platform. Same manner as Blackpool North i think.

This is why I regard SR for been more strict than any other TOC.

Don't ask for permission. Problem sold.

They're only guidelines.

 

[Old Timer]

Don't ask for permission. Problem sold.

They're only guidelines.

Then on that basis you will not mind if Railway staff ignore the guidelines as well ?

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

Then on that basis you will not mind if Railway staff ignore the guidelines as well ?

What specific guidelines are you on about?

I refuse to sign in anyway, it's crap. I shouldn't have to and I won't. I'm doing nothing wrong and shouldn't have to alert them of my presence. People travelling don't have too. I quite often travel and have a large plus so will get a few shots. I'm not there spotting though.

 

[Ferret]

Then on that basis you will not mind if Railway staff ignore the guidelines as well ?

Well, it's not so much ignoring them is it? 'You are requested to sign in'. Note, the word 'compelled' does not seem to be present.

 

[Old Timer]

I really cannot believe the arrogance on here, I really cannot :roll:

A Railway station is first and foremost both a place of work and for the use of passengers.

There was considerable debate on this about a year ago but in essence a Railway station is private property and you have no legal right to be there unless you are travelling or on railway business.

The Guidelines, and if you dont know what they are then you are perfectly capable of looking them up, exist to regulate a form of agreed relationship. If a variety want to argue about non-compliance and dont want to follow the process then fine by me, but dont moan when people like me throw you off Railway property in future.

Continued refusals to co-operate will eventually lead to everyone being thrown off, and at times I have to admit to seeing that as no bad thing.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

What specific guidelines are you on about?

I refuse to sign in anyway, it's crap. I shouldn't have to and I won't. I'm doing nothing wrong and shouldn't have to alert them of my presence. People travelling don't have too. I quite often travel and have a large plus so will get a few shots. I'm not there spotting though.

If you don't follow the guidelines to sign in, then OT means that you won't mind should the railway staff not follow guidelines and throw you off the premises.

 

[GB]

...and here in lies the issue and a point ive been trying to make for sometime.

The guidelines are just that... GUIDELINES, they may not specifically say you "must" sign in but they also do not give you the express right to be there at any other time other than offical railway buisness, eg catching a train.

Note: "You can take photographs at stations provided you do not sell them" or "Taking photographs on stations is permitted providing it is for personal use" does not afford you any legal right to be on railway premises.

The guidelines are there for the benifit of enthusiasts but it would seem some think they are above them. It will be the same "some" that will be the first to kick off when it doesn't go their way:roll:

The guidelines are also there as an act of good will, start abusing or ignoring them and things will only go one way.

 

[curly42]

I really cannot believe the arrogance on here, I really cannot :roll:
If a variety want to argue about non-compliance and dont want to follow the process then fine by me, but dont moan when people like me throw you off Railway property in future.

Continued refusals to co-operate will eventually lead to everyone being thrown off, and at times I have to admit to seeing that as no bad thing.

I really don't care if people wish to sign in or not,but I would like to say that I do find this attitude highly offensive.Statements such as "don't moan when people like me throw you off Railway property in future" and "continued refusals to co-operate" imply greater problems than just photography at stations.
In fact,the latter statement positively reeks of bad taste - whatever next - "a continued refusal to do things our way" ? A dangerous road to travel.
People seem to be taking sides over an issue that is not really a problem (or,at least,shouldn't be a problem). This sort of post,I feel,will not help the situation one little bit.

 

[455driver]

I refuse to sign in anyway, it's crap. I shouldn't have to and I won't. I'm doing nothing wrong and shouldn't have to alert them of my presence. People travelling don't have too. I quite often travel and have a large plus so will get a few shots. I'm not there spotting though.

And niether do posts like this!

 

[Ferret]

If a variety want to argue about non-compliance and dont want to follow the process then fine by me, but dont moan when people like me throw you off Railway property in future.

:roll:

Don't be entirely surprised if railway management start dishing out disciplinaries to people like you then. From the very opening paragraph of these guidelines you're so obsessed with - "All Britain's Train Operating Companies and Network Rail welcome rail enthusiasts to their stations". The request to sign in is just that - a request. Not an absolute necessity.

Is that simple enough for you to understand? You have absolutely no justification for throwing an enthusiast off railway property because they haven't signed in. To any member of staff on here who thinks they do, I strongly suggest you deal with that reality or seek alternative employment.

 

[142094]

Even when you do sign in, some managers /supervisors actually put you off from signing in in the future due to their rude behaviour. Some are not exactly a good first image for the railway.

 

[Ferret]

Even when you do sign in, some managers /supervisors actually put you off from signing in in the future due to their rude behaviour. Some are not exactly a good first image for the railway.

I can well imagine. Personally I find it amazing that they find their behaviour justified. The well publicised incident at Macclesfield involving that Virgin Trains member of staff really made me smile. That would be the same Virgin Trains that has Chris Gibb as their Head Honcho. Mr Gibb is an enthusiast - he likes his Deltics (of all things!). I found myself wondering if that member of staff would have behaved so appallingly if it had been Mr Gibb videoing RSG arriving at Macclesfield on a railtour. Somehow I doubt it. Moral of the story - a hell of a lot of people in the higher echelons of the industry are cranks. Too many more instances of people getting above their station and trying to remove enthusiasts from the premises as Old Timer seems to suggest and I pretty much guarantee that there will be staff receiving Form Ones and eventually being dismissed. THAT'S where this is heading...............

 

[40fan]

My only experience was last September photographing a class 377 at Milton Keynes. I was standing alongside the buffet and as I lined up my shot there was a bang on the glass and a shout of, "you can't take pictures of trains." This person was treated with the comtempt he deserved.

 

[Lampshade]

Can I just ask - where does it say you have to sign in? The guidelines simply say to notify the duty Manager of your presence.

I was at London Victoria last Sunday and went to take some pictures of a 465 because well... I like them. As I was only going to take a few pictures of this one unit which would take about 2 minutes, I thought it would be a waste of not only my time, but that of the Manager if he had other more important things to deal with. There was no queue at the ticket office and I knew Southern issued them so I bought a platform ticket and went through to platform 5, although the gateline assistant was a bit puzzled. I took the pictures without any problem but on the way back though a different gateline assistant obviously had no training on platform tickets and started firing all kinds of questions at me, where I'd come from, where I'd bought the ticket, why I'd bought it, what it was for... although he accepted my explanation eventually.

Maybe 'signing in' will eliminate situations like that but still, it's only two minutes, is there really a point for that short amount of time?

 

[Old Timer]

.....Is that simple enough for you to understand? You have absolutely no justification for throwing an enthusiast off railway property because they haven't signed in. To any member of staff on here who thinks they do, I strongly suggest you deal with that reality or seek alternative employment.

Are you really sure of that ?

Are you VERY sure of that. Because I would not like to prove you wrong publicly.

The Railway is NOT a playground or a public space where people can wander in and out and do as they please. It is proportionately a place of work and a place where passengers board and alight trains.

You know the following facts as well as I do, viz :-

(a) It is private property ;

(b) Byelaws exist to regulate the entering and indeed the remaining on a station for anything other than travelling or doing business ;

(c) NO right exists to take photographs on the Railway as it is NOT a public place.

(d) Any member of Railway staff and that includes Railway Group members, such as Infrastructure Companies, can request a person to leave at any time WITHOUT requiring to provide a reason.

Now I have no problem with photographers per se. I simply believe that they should act as requested. If they do not then I have no issue with them being removed. It might just teach them a little courtesy and respect for others.

However the "guidelines" have been written to regulate access and behaviour. They are "guidelines" simply because to give them any greater significance would impart certain legal implications - that should give you a clue to start with.

Under the arrangements between Network Rail and TOCs, and in accordance with security rules (which seemingly you are not aware of) there is a requirement for adequate security to be maintained at stations and this includes the indentification of persons "hanging around" for want of a better word.

Because a railway station is primarily a place of work, it falls within the remit of the HASWA Act and thus is required to make adequate provision for the safety of visitors. There is also the issue of legal liability, insurance, etc, etc.

THOSE are just some of the reasons why photograpers are requested to sign in.

It was to be hoped that in making such a gesture, the Railways were going some way towards accommodating railway enthusiasts and photographers.

It is dispiriting to see therefore that there are still a proportion who will not co-operate but have this mistaken idea that they can enter and wander around any station at will and do as they please. It is even more saddening to note YOUR response.

There are many many reasons why people are asked to sign in, and you seem to be completely unaware of even the most obvious ones.

I suggest that before you try to castigate someone, you do a little research first, eh ?

I have gone to numerous stations and asked if it is OK and signed in. I have never encountered any problems other than a lack of awareness of the staff, which when properly manged in a polite and courteous manner has always been resolved. Shouting and bawling about non-existant rights causes only damage and puts people's backs up.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

From the very opening paragraph of these guidelines you're so obsessed with - "All Britain's Train Operating Companies and Network Rail welcome rail enthusiasts to their stations

Yeah, but they're just guidelines according to you aren't they? Don't need to be followed according to you :roll:

I wouldn't be surprised if you were the one looking for a job soon.

 

[Old Timer]

Can I just ask - where does it say you have to sign in? The guidelines simply say to notify the duty Manager of your presence.

Under various requirements, IF the Duty Manager is happy for you to go onto the station then they should give you a visitor briefing, for which you are required to sign as a visitor. This should include areas where you may go, as well as you not go.

Consider for example days and times when infrastructure work is taking place which could give rise to danger to anyone nearby.

There is now at least one main London station I am aware of where access to photographers has been stopped after a number of abuses where people went onto the station without speaking with anyone and started to go into areas where they should not have been to take photographs.

 

[Ferret]

Yeah, but they're just guidelines according to you aren't they? Don't need to be followed according to you :roll:

I wouldn't be surprised if you were the one looking for a job soon.

Truly laughable. On what grounds? For daring to point out on an internet forum that fellow members of railway staff are doing us all a mighty dis-service by getting above their station. Face facts mate - enthusiasts are welcome at stations. Who sets the policy - you or the likes of Chris Gibb?:roll:

 

[ralphchadkirk]

So you complain when railway staff do not follow the "guidelines", but you think that enthusiasts should not have to follow the guidelines? That is truly laughable.

Face the facts - the railway is there for the travelling public. Not for arrogant platform-enders like yourself who damage the image of the vast majority of enthusiasts.

 

[Ferret]

Are you really sure of that ?

Are you VERY sure of that. Because I would not like to prove you wrong publicly.

The Railway is NOT a playground or a public space where people can wander in and out and do as they please. It is proportionately a place of work and a place where passengers board and alight trains.

You know the following facts as well as I do, viz :-

(a) It is private property ;

(b) Byelaws exist to regulate the entering and indeed the remaining on a station for anything other than travelling or doing business ;

(c) NO right exists to take photographs on the Railway as it is NOT a public place.

(d) Any member of Railway staff and that includes Railway Group members, such as Infrastructure Companies, can request a person to leave at any time WITHOUT requiring to provide a reason.

Now I have no problem with photographers per se. I simply believe that they should act as requested. If they do not then I have no issue with them being removed. It might just teach them a little courtesy and respect for others.

However the "guidelines" have been written to regulate access and behaviour. They are "guidelines" simply because to give them any greater significance would impart certain legal implications - that should give you a clue to start with.

Under the arrangements between Network Rail and TOCs, and in accordance with security rules (which seemingly you are not aware of) there is a requirement for adequate security to be maintained at stations and this includes the indentification of persons "hanging around" for want of a better word.

Because a railway station is primarily a place of work, it falls within the remit of the HASWA Act and thus is required to make adequate provision for the safety of visitors. There is also the issue of legal liability, insurance, etc, etc.

THOSE are just some of the reasons why photograpers are requested to sign in.

It was to be hoped that in making such a gesture, the Railways were going some way towards accommodating railway enthusiasts and photographers.

It is dispiriting to see therefore that there are still a proportion who will not co-operate but have this mistaken idea that they can enter and wander around any station at will and do as they please. It is even more saddening to note YOUR response.

There are many many reasons why people are asked to sign in, and you seem to be completely unaware of even the most obvious ones.

I suggest that before you try to castigate someone, you do a little research first, eh ?

I have gone to numerous stations and asked if it is OK and signed in. I have never encountered any problems other than a lack of awareness of the staff, which when properly manged in a polite and courteous manner has always been resolved. Shouting and bawling about non-existant rights causes only damage and puts people's backs up.

Just who do you think you are?! Since when is it your place to teach enthusiasts any form of lesson? Utterly unbelievable. Tell me, did you support the ludicrous behaviour of the Virgin Trains member of staff at Macclesfield? After all, the gentleman was hanging around and hadn't signed in so he's clearly a menace which needs to be dealt with.

What saddens me is that there are still staff who thinks that enthusiasts not signing in is a reason to prevent the same enthusiasts from going about their hobby. And thank you for the lecture about H&S and Security. The fact that you've felt the need to mention 'security' is something else that makes me smile - if anything, the presence of enthusiasts is more of an aid to helping provide a secure environment at railway stations, but hey, don't let common sense get in the way of a flawed argument.

I cannot believe I'm having this argument with you Old Timer - I thought from your other intelligent contibutions on this site, you'd be taking a far more sensible line here. It seems I was sadly mistaken.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So you complain when railway staff do not follow the "guidelines", but you think that enthusiasts should not have to follow the guidelines? That is truly laughable.

Face the facts - the railway is there for the travelling public. Not for arrogant platform-enders like yourself who damage the image of the vast majority of enthusiasts.

That's just it - by not signing in, they aren't actually failing to follow 'the guidelines'. It's a request, not a compulsion. What is so difficult for you to understand about that?!

One further point. I very rarely platform-end. But I'll defend those who do to the absolute hilt, even if it means rubbing a few arrogant staff up the wrong way.