Halton Curve upgrade is on

[driver_m]

Seen one sat at frodsham on Friday .Running as a class 3 intriguingly .Never seen that before with a route learner. It was a 158 if anyone is particularly interested.

 

[M28361M]

I saw TfW unit 150227 at Lime Street at 1352 today.

Realtime trains has runs between Liverpool and Frodsham every day this week

 

[craigybagel]

Route learning is now taking place in earnest, lots of drivers and guards at Chester getting released on a daily basis to learn the route.

 

[childwallblues]

Just lets hope that TfW have the stock in place for a May start.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

It is a Class 150 on the route learning runs today.
The Liverpool Echo is reporting that a review is taking place that could result in Ditton Station being reopened.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/disused-railway-station-near-mersey-15903651

 

[frodshamfella]

It is a Class 150 on the route learning runs today.
The Liverpool Echo is reporting that a review is taking place that could result in Ditton Station being reopened.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/disused-railway-station-near-mersey-15903651

Hi , yes I read that too, although I think they got the location of the station a bit mixed up !!

 

[jamesst]

Hi , yes I read that too, although I think they got the location of the station a bit mixed up !!

It's the Echo, you're lucky they even know there's a railway line there!!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

And you can add 5 minutes to Liverpool-Chester journey times if they stop there.
Just at the foot of the rising bridge embankment southbound.

 

[frodshamfella]

I know the bones of the station are still there so perhaps that makes it easier/cheaper, but I would have thought the idea of putting a station on the curve at Beechwood would have been more attractive.

 

[frodshamfella]

It's the Echo, you're lucky they even know there's a railway line there!!

haha that's true. It stated better access to the airport as well, which I couldn't quite follow, you can go from Runcorn or Widnes Stations to South Parkway now for Liverpool Airport passengers.

 

[driver_m]

haha that's true. It stated better access to the airport as well, which I couldn't quite follow, you can go from Runcorn or Widnes Stations to South Parkway now for Liverpool Airport passengers.

Ditton would be about as much use as South Parkway is for the airport! However If you could use Merseytravel passes there, then it would get used, no doubt about it. Especially if/when Halton gets fully integrated into the Merseytravel Zonal fare system.

 

[frodshamfella]

Ditton would be about as much use as South Parkway is for the airport! However If you could use Merseytravel passes there, then it would get used, no doubt about it. Especially if/when Halton gets fully integrated into the Merseytravel Zonal fare system.

I use South Parkway for the airport, I don't mind it, much better than whatever was available before, whatever that was ! However, the airport needs a rail link, thats the long and short of it. Didn't know the the Merseytravel zones were going to include Halton, thats a good move.

 

[Gareth]

I’m not sure they are. Halton have been dragging their feet with regards to transport integration. They were keen to keep control over the two road bridges and they probably don’t like the idea of their directly-owned bus company, Halton Transport, ending up with its routes subjected to franchising by Merseytravel.

 

[driver_m]

I’m not sure they are. Halton have been dragging their feet with regards to transport integration. They were keen to keep control over the two road bridges and they probably don’t like the idea of their directly-owned bus company, Halton Transport, ending up with its routes subjected to franchising by Merseytravel.

How does that work though, because the LCR now oversees transport including within Halton? Halton Transport already bids for Merseytravel work too, if the number of school buses it does in St Helens is anything to go by .

 

[Gareth]

Can’t say I know the exact arrangements, however, membership of the combined authority doesn’t appear to preclude membership of Merseytravel. Rather, the legislation that concerned the abolition of the metropolitan county councils back in the 80s does; which amongst other things, mandates a unified transport authority covering all metropolitan districts. So far as I’m aware, no metropolitan district can unilaterally go its own way. Halton, however, being a non-metrolitan district was never subject to such arrangements. Cheshire County Council was responsible for transport prior to Halton becoming a unitary authority, when it took over all the county council’s responsibilities in its area, including transportation.

The only tangible change I’ve seen in Halton is Merseytravel branded bus stops. The lack of progress on ticket integration is frustrating, especially as there’s a spare fare zone (Area E) just waiting to be used.

 

[frodshamfella]

Can’t say I know the exact arrangements, however, membership of the combined authority doesn’t appear to preclude membership of Merseytravel. Rather, the legislation that concerned the abolition of the metropolitan county councils back in the 80s does; which amongst other things, mandates a unified transport authority covering all metropolitan districts. So far as I’m aware, no metropolitan district can unilaterally go its own way. Halton, however, being a non-metrolitan district was never subject to such arrangements. Cheshire County Council was responsible for transport prior to Halton becoming a unitary authority, when it took over all the county council’s responsibilities in its area, including transportation.

The only tangible change I’ve seen in Halton is Merseytravel branded bus stops. The lack of progress on ticket integration is frustrating, especially as there’s a spare fare zone (Area E) just waiting to be used.

Yes I've seen the Merseytravel bus stop near Preston on the Hill.

 

[driver_m]

If you go on the Merseytravel website. It says they oversee the transport policy on behalf of the LCR which now includes Halton, even mentioning that both travel plans have been brought together, major schemes include Halton specific ones, such as the curve, the Sliver Jubilee Bridge as well as other schemes specific to other parts .So it seems that it's either Merseytravel or the Mayor himself that's dragging their feet on ticket integration .Presumably the TfN proposals to have a unified ticket arrangement across the North might be making this all pointlessa anyway but it seems as clear as mud as to what's happening, and no doubt will only get sorted out when the TFW guards are constantly getting people travelling Liverpool to Chester on Saveaway complaining that their tickets aren't valid and it ends up in the local rags.

As a Merseytravel tax contributor, I'm putting into these Halton schemes, so therefore, I should be able to benefit from this infrastructure, as should Halton people with ours. I'm happy to put money towards the curve, but I should be able to take advantage of a saveaway to make use of it, seeing as I've chipped in!

 

[LDECRexile]

I have created a flickr album aiming to cover the Halton Curve.

It can be accessed here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157704110962922

I invite anyone to contribute photos and short film clips. My established ways are 1. by email, to set that up please send me a message on this board and I'll send you my email address, or 2. by giving me the green light to link an established flickr album. (If a substantial one already exists please tell me asap and I will offer my shots to it rather than reinventing the wheel.)

If you send me material please include location and date, comments to support captions are always welcome. Historical material is every bit as welcome as current.

My established format, for good or ill, can be seen here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648494725811

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

As you can see, these ventures depend entirely on amateurs chipping in. No money ever changes hands in either direction.

Dave

 

[Ianigsy]

Having passed through Lime Street a few times in the last couple of days, I get the distinct impression that the crews on the training runs are working their way through some of the less well-known suburbs of Cardiff on the destination blind- today it was Cadoxton and yesterday it was Cathays on one end- nice to have a picture of a unit in Liverpool showing a destination of Coryton though!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Having passed through Lime Street a few times in the last couple of days, I get the distinct impression that the crews on the training runs are working their way through some of the less well-known suburbs of Cardiff on the destination blind- today it was Cadoxton and yesterday it was Cathays on one end- nice to have a picture of a unit in Liverpool showing a destination of Coryton though!

I saw a 319 at Lime St recently where the driver was trying to find Blackpool North on the manual winder, but kept finding places like Buxton and Bradford.
It might be a while before 319s reach those places (although maybe useful in 769 guise).
Presumably they were using a class 150-type blind.
Recently some of the upgraded 319s have been showing just "Lime St" which isn't right really.

 

[anamyd]

I saw a 319 at Lime St recently where the driver was trying to find Blackpool North on the manual winder, but kept finding places like Buxton and Bradford.
It might be a while before 319s reach those places (although maybe useful in 769 guise).
Presumably they were using a class 150-type blind.
Recently some of the upgraded 319s have been showing just "Lime St" which isn't right really.

How is "Lime St" any worse than "Euston" on Virgin Trains...?

 

[anamyd]

Scroll down to see a photo, courtesy of Ray Barber, of the 175[0] route-learning train on the curve, in this week's edition of Charlie Hulme's excellent bulletin:-

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

incorrect link - useful if you want to view the latest edition! http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1812a.htm is what you were supposed to post

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

How is "Lime St" any worse than "Euston" on Virgin Trains...?

It isn't!
What's worse about "Euston" is that there's plenty of room for "London Euston" to be displayed on the Voyager PIS.
It's also inconsistent with the Pendolino PIS, and yet Virgin must have specified them both.

 

[craigybagel]

Having passed through Lime Street a few times in the last couple of days, I get the distinct impression that the crews on the training runs are working their way through some of the less well-known suburbs of Cardiff on the destination blind- today it was Cadoxton and yesterday it was Cathays on one end- nice to have a picture of a unit in Liverpool showing a destination of Coryton though!

Cathays isn't on the 150 blinds.

 

[urbophile]

The single fare currently from Liverpool South Parkway to Chester (via Northern etc to Lime Street or Merseyrail to Central, then Merseyrail) is £7.50, or Merseyrail Day Saver £5.30 (all day pass), or Merseytravel Saveaway £5.40 (all day plus buses and ferry). For those of us with concessionary passes that is £zero. From late May the quicker and shorter journey via the Halton Curve (Transport for Wales) will cost £11.50 (£7.60 with a railcard). Does anybody know if that anomaly will be corrected? The time difference on the through journey, provided you don't mind waiting for the one train an hour, would be an advantage, but from central Liverpool there would be little in it time wise.

 

[TheSel]

The single fare currently from Liverpool South Parkway to Chester (via Northern etc to Lime Street or Merseyrail to Central, then Merseyrail) is £7.50, or Merseyrail Day Saver £5.30 (all day pass), or Merseytravel Saveaway £5.40 (all day plus buses and ferry). For those of us with concessionary passes that is £zero. From late May the quicker and shorter journey via the Halton Curve (Transport for Wales) will cost £11.50 (£7.60 with a railcard). Does anybody know if that anomaly will be corrected? The time difference on the through journey, provided you don't mind waiting for the one train an hour, would be an advantage, but from central Liverpool there would be little in it time wise.

That's not an anomaly. There is a choice between a longer, slower, some would say 'inconvenient' route necessitating a change of trains, and a shorter, quicker, direct route, for which a premium is payable. It's been the concept behind toll bridges and tunnels (abundant over and under the Mersey amongst many other places) for years.

I'll bet there'll be plenty 'chancers', though, with their SaveAways etc trying to use the Halton Chord route, especially in the first few weeks of operation. It might be wise for the passenger information displays to clearly show "Liverpool via Runcorn - Merseytravel and SaveAway tickets NOT valid on this service" or similar at Chester.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Are those "new" fares encompassing the new shorter route, or are they just the old ones? (I'm viewing brfares).
You only get Via Warrington, Via Birkenhead, or Any Permitted at the moment, no mention specifically of Via Runcorn.
Also the Parkway fares to Chester look identical to the Lime St fares.
The Frodsham-Parkway fare is currently a nonsensical £14.20 ADR, £11.90 ODR (Any Permitted).
That surely will not apply to the new service?
Whatever the business case for the new service, it wouldn't include free travel on Merseytravel concessions!

 

[KevinTurvey]

Those new fares seem expensive by comparison. The new Lime St - Chester route is showing at £12.60 full peak return and I can't see an off peak option. As already mentioned, Chester to Liverpool Merseyrail is £7.80 peak return, and £5.30 off peak.

Whilst a time conscious peak traveller might pay the extra £4.80, surely no off peak traveller is going to pay the extra £7.30.

From Runcorn to Chester it is still showing as £12.50 with no off peak option, whereas from Runcorn East to Chester it is £8.60 and for a faster journey time. Bizarre! (sourced from NRE website)

Sadly, if the above is true ridership may not be great.

 

[frodshamfella]

This needs to be rectified.

 

[jonesy3001]

I saw a 319 at Lime St recently where the driver was trying to find Blackpool North on the manual winder, but kept finding places like Buxton and Bradford.
It might be a while before 319s reach those places (although maybe useful in 769 guise).
Presumably they were using a class 150-type blind.
Recently some of the upgraded 319s have been showing just "Lime St" which isn't right really.

that'll be 319373 only one with a roller blind and short term loan til the 769s "are" ready