Halton Curve upgrade is on

[craigybagel]

According to new timetable from May this year, its looks like the 0703 ( M-F from Chester to Liverpool via the curve originates in Shrewsbury. I don't believe this has happened before being Wrexham General the furthest this service has come from/to.

That change took place last month. It replaces the old 0600 Shrewsbury - Wrexham. This was a 150 that went on to the Bidston line. Now the Bidston unit comes from Chester, and the service from Shrewsbury through to Liverpool uses a 175.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

According to new timetable from May this year, its looks like the 0703 ( M-F from Chester to Liverpool via the curve originates in Shrewsbury. I don't believe this has happened before being Wrexham General the furthest this service has come from/to.

It started at last month's timetable change.
While it's true it's the first time for a Shrewsbury-Wrexham-Chester-Liverpool service, there was a regular (fast) Shrewsbury-Crewe-Liverpool service for decades until Wales & West (I think it was) decided to send all their trains to Manchester.
Plus all the Shrewsbury-Chester-Birkenhead services until 1967 of course.

 

[frodshamfella]

The TFW Halton Curves are now booked for 175s. Any trains can be late anywhere and react on other services

I understood the future plan was the return of a Liverpool to Cardiff rail link and this was the route it will take ?

 

[frodshamfella]

It started at last month's timetable change.
While it's true it's the first time for a Shrewsbury-Wrexham-Chester-Liverpool service, there was a regular (fast) Shrewsbury-Crewe-Liverpool service for decades until Wales & West (I think it was) decided to send all their trains to Manchester.
Plus all the Shrewsbury-Chester-Birkenhead services until 1967 of course.

Good to see the link back then, I didn't notice a southbound service unfortunately.
When are we likely to see Liverpool - North Wales commencing ?

 

[krus_aragon]

Good to see the link back then, I didn't notice a southbound service unfortunately.
When are we likely to see Liverpool - North Wales commencing ?

We need more rolling stock (197s) to do that (and extend down to Cardiff), so it'll be 2022 before we see them.

 

[frodshamfella]

We need more rolling stock (197s) to do that (and extend down to Cardiff), so it'll be 2022 before we see them.

Such a long wait

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The politicos can claim the trains already serve North Wales (Wrexham, and now Ruabon and Chirk), even if only 1tpd.

 

[craigybagel]

We need more rolling stock (197s) to do that (and extend down to Cardiff), so it'll be 2022 before we see them.

Such a long wait

Probably be 2024 before the full new timetable is in place.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

The TFW Halton Curves are now booked for 175s. Any trains can be late anywhere and react on other services

I travelled on a 158 both ways today.

 

[frodshamfella]

I travelled on 12.44 today Frodsham to Liverpool ...packed.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I travelled on 12.44 today Frodsham to Liverpool ...packed.

I was on the 0938 from Helsby. Very quiet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've only travelled off-peak, but these trains are very quiet out of Chester.
Gets busier at Helsby and Frodsham (especially), and picks up a few at Runcorn.
At times I've been the only one getting off at Parkway, with nobody boarding.
The timing of these trains between Runcorn and Lime St, closely following LM services, does nothing for local traffic potential.
Southbound, you do get airport traffic at Parkway, but I've seen some very confused passengers thinking it would run via the Wirral.
With all the disruption to LM services recently, the AW service is a stable performer on the route - rarely late or cancelled.

At Chester those heading for Merseyrail's 4tph largely ignore the Halton service, even though the xx32 AW would be a nicer journey in much the same time as ME's xx31.
Another observation is that the Northern Manchester Victoria service seems to be picking up trade, and is noticeably busier than the Halton service.
Passengers changing from the coast have twigged it's a decent service in the "other" half of the hour to the Piccadilly service.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Another observation is that the Northern Manchester Victoria service seems to be picking up trade, and is noticeably busier than the Halton service.
Passengers changing from the coast have twigged it's a decent service in the "other" half of the hour to the Piccadilly service.

Has this led to the TfW service to Manchester getting noticeably less busy?

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Has this led to the TfW service to Manchester getting noticeably less busy?

Not at peak times, no. 0725 and 0754 from Frodsham still always busy.

 

[VT 390]

I travelled on 12.44 today Frodsham to Liverpool ...packed.

On Saturday 25 January I saw the previous 12:19 arrival in to Lime Street and I didn't know you could even fit that many people on to a 150, so it must be something at that time of day people want to come to Liverpool for as I travelled on this service back out and it was almost empty.

 

[AndrewE]

On Saturday 25 January I saw the previous 12:19 arrival in to Lime Street and I didn't know you could even fit that many people on to a 150, so it must be something at that time of day people want to come to Liverpool for as I travelled on this service back out and it was almost empty.

Are EMT still tipping their customers out at Liverpool S Parkway? That might account for it.

 

[Llandudno]

I was on the 0938 from Helsby. Very quiet.

Possibly a little too early on a Saturday morning, try the trains a couple of hours later, Liverpool is a very popular afternoon and evening destination on a Saturday!

 

[frodshamfella]

I've travelled on various days and various times including Sundays and have found passengers carrying respectable to busy. Seems to pick up quite a few at Runcorn also. I must say I've found the staff very friendly on the route.

 

[sw1ller]

I've travelled on various days and various times including Sundays and have found passengers carrying respectable to busy. Seems to pick up quite a few at Runcorn also. I must say I've found the staff very friendly on the route.

Not been on my train then!!!

 

[M28361M]

I've travelled on various days and various times including Sundays and have found passengers carrying respectable to busy. Seems to pick up quite a few at Runcorn also. I must say I've found the staff very friendly on the route.

I wonder if TfW picked up any extra passengers on Sunday 2nd Feb with the Merseyrail service being bustituted between Hooton and Chester?

 

[frodshamfella]

I wonder if TfW picked up any extra passengers on Sunday 2nd Feb with the Merseyrail service being bustituted between Hooton and Chester?

Maybe. Still a learning curve for passengers I expect, takes a long time for info to filter through.

 

[Djgr]

I've only travelled off-peak, but these trains are very quiet out of Chester.
Gets busier at Helsby and Frodsham (especially), and picks up a few at Runcorn.
At times I've been the only one getting off at Parkway, with nobody boarding.
The timing of these trains between Runcorn and Lime St, closely following LM services, does nothing for local traffic potential.
Southbound, you do get airport traffic at Parkway, but I've seen some very confused passengers thinking it would run via the Wirral.
With all the disruption to LM services recently, the AW service is a stable performer on the route - rarely late or cancelled.

At Chester those heading for Merseyrail's 4tph largely ignore the Halton service, even though the xx32 AW would be a nicer journey in much the same time as ME's xx31.
Another observation is that the Northern Manchester Victoria service seems to be picking up trade, and is noticeably busier than the Halton service.
Passengers changing from the coast have twigged it's a decent service in the "other" half of the hour to the Piccadilly service.

Outside of the enthusiast community there's not a huge incentive to travel from Chester to Liverpool via the Halton curve.

 

[krus_aragon]

Outside of the enthusiast community there's not a huge incentive to travel from Chester to Liverpool via the Halton curve.

Agreed. It's the through service from places beyond Chester (plus the direct service for Helsby and Frodsham) that will be the key drivers of traffic.

 

[AndrewE]

Agreed. It's the through service from places beyond Chester (plus the direct service for Helsby and Frodsham) that will be the key drivers of traffic.

That and the access to the airport without a change of train.

 

[frodshamfella]

It will be when the service goes beyond Chester when it comes into its own. It has certainly made reaching the airport much easier, plus Chester to Rucorn.

 

[Eccles1983]

Outside of the enthusiast community there's not a huge incentive to travel from Chester to Liverpool via the Halton curve.

Apart from a toilet and WiFi.

Funny that, must be a truck load of enthusiasts I see getting on and off at Chester and staying on until Lime Street.

 

[Llandudno]

The Halton Curve Route between Chester and Liverpool is considerably more expensive than Merseyrail.

Day Return via Halton Curve £7.90
Merseytravel Saveaway valid after 0930 £5.55 (also valid on buses in Liverpool)

Difficult for TfW to poach Merseyrail passengers, perhaps they ought to price match?

 

[M28361M]

The Halton Curve Route between Chester and Liverpool is considerably more expensive than Merseyrail.

Day Return via Halton Curve £7.90
Merseytravel Saveaway valid after 0930 £5.55 (also valid on buses in Liverpool)

Difficult for TfW to poach Merseyrail passengers, perhaps they ought to price match?

£7.90 is the "via Birkenhead" Anytime Day Return; the "via Runcorn" is £7.70, so actually slightly cheaper than Merseyrail.

The Off Peak Day Return "via Runcorn", however, is £6.10, so more expensive and also has an evening peak restriction which Merseyrail fares don't. Not much space for TfW to reduce it without undercutting the Chester-Frodsham CDR at £5.90.

It's a bit annoying that there is no reasonably priced ticket that allows travel both ways - the only "Any Permitted" Return fare is an Anytime Day Return at £12.90.

 

[kieron]

Difficult for TfW to poach Merseyrail passengers, perhaps they ought to price match?

TfW have off peak tickets as well, now.

What they don't have is 4 trains an hour. As the Merseyrail off peak ticket is a PTE product, you can't buy a cheap excess fare if you've already paid but want to use the TfW train.

Of course, Merseyrail only has this much of an advantage if your journey is between Chester and Liverpool. TfW doesn't need to chase after every single potential passenger.

 

[frodshamfella]

Outside of the enthusiast community there's not a huge incentive to travel from Chester to Liverpool via the Halton curve.

It is a more pleasant route with far less stopping than via Birkenhead.