Hamburg - rail and tram info.

[Mag_seven]

Off to Hamburg next month for a few days and was wondering what interesting rail/tram things there are to do and see. TIA.

 

[Polarbear]

No trams in Hamburg. It does have a U Bahn & S Bahn network, as well as a fairly comprehensive bus network.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ride the Ringlinie (U3) throughout, it is mostly elevated and provides an excellent tour of the city, particularly the port areas.

And no visit to Hamburg is complete without a visit to Miniatur Wunderland!

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

If you're really into trams, Bremen and Hanover have nice networks and old Hamburg trams can be seen at Schönberger Strand (near Kiel) and Hannover-Wehmingen tram museums

 

[Mag_seven]

Wot no trams! How un German City like! Might take a trip to Hannover on my last day as I have a late flight back. Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are some very tram-like bus services.

 

[30907]

Wot no trams! How un German City like! Might take a trip to Hannover on my last day as I have a late flight back. Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Yoi can do that for peanuts on a Niedersachsen Ticket which covers all Regional trains and both Bremen and Hannover tram/Stadtbahn networks. 0900 start. It includes the Central zone of Hamburg.

Don't forget the Hamburg river ferries.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Presumably Hamburg (and West Berlin) tram networks were so badly damaged during WWII that the western allies didn't see much point in repairing them. Most if not all other large conurbations still have trams, including East Berlin (some lines are even extending over the border into the west)

 

[gysev]

Presumably Hamburg (and West Berlin) tram networks were so badly damaged during WWII that the western allies didn't see much point in repairing them. Most if not all other large conurbations still have trams, including East Berlin (some lines are even extending over the border into the west)

That is not correct. The last trams in Hamburg ran in 1978 and as far as I know, the war ended in 1945. It was a pure political decision by a local government that was - and still is - anti-tram.

 

[gordonthemoron]

That is not correct. The last trams in Hamburg ran in 1978 and as far as I know, the war ended in 1945. It was a pure political decision by a local government that was - and still is - anti-tram.

Munich got rid of some tramlines as the u-bahn expanded although they have started opening new tramslines more recently

 

[duesselmartin]

Presumably Hamburg (and West Berlin) tram networks were so badly damaged during WWII that the western allies didn't see much point in repairing them. Most if not all other large conurbations still have trams, including East Berlin (some lines are even extending over the border into the west)

just like in Britain, the 1960s was the end for many tram networks. Some even closed as late as the 1980s (Wuppertal is an example).
Some cities in the Ruhr are still contemplating reducing its network.

 

[gysev]

Munich got rid of some tramlines as the u-bahn expanded although they have started opening new tramslines more recently

Indeed: some lines, not all of them. Hamburg closed them for political reasons and the war damage had nothing to do with it.

 

[radamfi]

In Britain it is assumed that a tram line will get much better patronage than an equivalent bus route. There is a massive gulf in status between bus and tram in Britain and in Britain buses are built cheaply. When a tram line is converted to a bus route in Germany, is there patronage loss? There is less of a quality gulf between bus and tram in Germany compared to Britain as buses and trams use the same fare structure in Germany and the Germans generally use quality German built buses such as Citaros and MAN Lion Cities.

 

[30907]

In Britain it is assumed that a tram line will get much better patronage than an equivalent bus route. There is a massive gulf in status between bus and tram in Britain and in Britain buses are built cheaply. When a tram line is converted to a bus route in Germany, is there patronage loss? There is less of a quality gulf between bus and tram in Germany compared to Britain as buses and trams use the same fare structure in Germany and the Germans generally use quality German built buses such as Citaros and MAN Lion Cities.

I dont think there have been tram to bus conversions in DE in any significant numbers for decades. Where they have happened (Naumburg comes to mind - since reversed) it has been because of low patronage or life expired equipment (latter was of course typical of UK). But even so there is definitely a gulf in status in favour of tram in DE, and quite small "East" German towns have battled to retain them - Plauen, Halberstadt, Goerlitz, Nordhausen....

 

[Mag_seven]

Thanks for the info everyone. One thing I did discover on a day trip was riding over the Rendsburg High Bridge. Quite spectacular and completely unexpected.

 

[dutchflyer]

1.When a tram line is converted to a bus route in Germany, is there patronage loss?
2.There is less of a quality gulf between bus and tram in Germany compared to Britain as buses and trams use the same fare structure in Germany and the Germans generally use quality German built buses such as Citaros and MAN Lion Cities.

at1. the very few lines that have lost tram to bus were generally so little used that this is not an issue. Last one was quite recent in Műlheim, just west of Essen and now merged with it as Ruhrbahn. I think it went to the local cemetary.
There HAVE been some efforts to reintroduce trams in Hamburg, in fact along the last route 2 that had trams and now double-artics, but a change of local govmt. again led to the idea that HH was best served with its metro=Ubahn and the extensive S-bahn=DB locals. Cost of re-introducing another type of means was too expensive. Towns that did re-introduce trams are Oberhausen, Heilbronn, all as extension of neighboring networks or tram-trains.
Next largest city without trams is Wiesbaden, just west of Frankfurt, with around 200/250k people.
Cities that have given up trams, like Wuppertal,Aachen and the extensive Vestische network had old style local lines, unrenovated, often single track along major roads-a bit Belgian style and had chosen not to invest in renovation or upgrade long before.
at2. you will be surprised to see how many towns also have Polish Solaris as lower priced quality alternative. Many towns also have many minor routes run by contractors, im Auftrag, who often use buses discarded by the local Stadtwerke = City services. They also have much lower paid drivers, as they are not beamter= in civil service.

 

[Groningen]

Here is a German clip about the U-Bahn in Hamburg. It is of course in the German language.

 

[Allegheny1600]

If you're going to Hamburg then I must recommend a trip to Harburg, just a short ride to the south of the city by U-bahn or S-bahn or even mainline train from the Hauptbahnhof. You'll need as long as you possibly can spend there for the best train spotting experience I know of with one train every 90 seconds, approx at best.
The Hauptbahnhof itself has a pretty good selection of trains and Dammtor is well worth a visit too, for its sheer beauty!
Finally, if you get a Länderbahn ticket, it's easy and cheap to visit Lüneberg - great spotting, lots of railway action and the town is only a short(ish) walk away and it would be hard to find a more 'German' town, it's gorgeous!
Cheers,
John.

 

[CC 72100]

This may help from my visit 12 months ago: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hamburg-loco-hauled.135157/ and https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hamburg-loco-hauled-a-day-exploring-schleswig-holstein.138372/

 

[Mag_seven]

Thanks for the info Allegheny1600 and CC 72100 but I've already been and come back! (see message #15).

Did see many of the things you described and will definitely be back!

 

[CC 72100]

Thanks for the info Allegheny1600 and CC 72100 but I've already been and come back! (see message #15).

Did see many of the things you described and will definitely be back!

So I see... whoops!

 

[Ianno87]

I'd recommend (as well as Miniatur Wunderland) a tour of the harbour and huge commercial port from in front of Langdungsbrücken station (look for Hafenrundrahrt).

 

[Allegheny1600]

Thanks for the info Allegheny1600 and CC 72100 but I've already been and come back! (see message #15).

Did see many of the things you described and will definitely be back!

Whoops here too!
Not to worry, next time, eh!?!
Cheers,
John.