Hammersmith OZ Auto working

[Jack Barry]

Now I know that the signal box has been taken out but I'm after someone with a really good knowledge who might be able to shed some light.
At Hammersmith lever 23 was spare but I have read that it was intended to be an auto lever but was taken out, what sort of auto working could there be I don't think into and out of the platforms as there are too many unlike the new system which does this.

 

[Ex LT]

Now I know that the signal box has been taken out but I'm after someone with a really good knowledge who might be able to shed some light.
At Hammersmith lever 23 was spare but I have read that it was intended to be an auto lever but was taken out, what sort of auto working could there be I don't think into and out of the platforms as there are too many unlike the new system which does this.

Seems like you have asked a question no knows or are thinking what could it be. Having looked at the layout and putting the thinking cap on the only thing I can think might have been possible is for trains to come from the sheds onto 24 Rd and back onto another road, I could of course be completly wrong.

 

[bramling]

Now I know that the signal box has been taken out but I'm after someone with a really good knowledge who might be able to shed some light.
At Hammersmith lever 23 was spare but I have read that it was intended to be an auto lever but was taken out, what sort of auto working could there be I don't think into and out of the platforms as there are too many unlike the new system which does this.

Are you able to elaborate any more from your source?

Automatic working at Hammer is largely unfeasible because pretty much every potential move would require movement of points, which renders automatic working on this type of lever frame pretty much impossible.

 

[bionic]

Platform 1 to Goldhawk Road and Goldhawk Road to platform 2 wouldn't require movement of points, although trains would still have to pass over trailing and facing sets.

Same goes for 24 road to/from the wash plant. All points in the depot were hand worked and train movements controlled by a shunter.

Don't forget Hammersmith previously had a goods yard next to platform one up until 1960.

No idea what that lever would have been for though!

 

[bluegoblin7]

I've never heard anything about this, although that doesn't mean it was never the plan.

But, as stated by others, it really doesn't seem how any sort of 'auto' working at Hammersmith could have been feasible on an N style frame of that era. Sources do suggest that the frame was originally intended for elsewhere, though, and it's possible that could have had plans for an auto-working (King) lever?

Generally at this stage only 'through' sites had auto-working, or King levers - these remain at Whitechapel (pretty much always in King) and Rickmansworth.

 

[Jack Barry]

Are you able to elaborate any more from your source?

Automatic working at Hammer is largely unfeasible because pretty much every potential move would require movement of points, which renders automatic working on this type of lever frame pretty much impossible.

Not at the moment all I know is what I have been told, hoping that I will get some more information which may or may not help.
I still think it was to do with shunting when washing trains but I could be totally wrong.

 

[Jack Barry]

Platform 1 to Goldhawk Road and Goldhawk Road to platform 2 wouldn't require movement of points, although trains would still have to pass over trailing and facing sets.

Same goes for 24 road to/from the wash plant. All points in the depot were hand worked and train movements controlled by a shunter.

Don't forget Hammersmith previously had a goods yard next to platform one up until 1960.

No idea what that lever would have been for though!

If it was to do with shunting when washing perhaps the shunter would have done things slightly different I seem to remember that Hainault had a lever used when washing/shunting or am I going in the wrong direction.

 

[Jack Barry]

I've never heard anything about this, although that doesn't mean it was never the plan.

But, as stated by others, it really doesn't seem how any sort of 'auto' working at Hammersmith could have been feasible on an N style frame of that era. Sources do suggest that the frame was originally intended for elsewhere, though, and it's possible that could have had plans for an auto-working (King) lever?

Generally at this stage only 'through' sites had auto-working, or King levers - these remain at Whitechapel (pretty much always in King) and Rickmansworth.

I think along the same lines as my understanding is if it was a king lever then that would be for through working although the only example I can think of at the moment where there was auto working and I'm sure there were others was Ealing Bdy on the Central I am sure the signaller had a key which would allow working in either one platform or both.
I'm not to sure what you mean feasible on a N frame of that era as I know there are frames elsewhere which work automatically although again different at Harrow.

 

[Jack Barry]

Have now received a piece of the jigsaw. I should have said that this is at the bottom of the mechanical locking list.

 

[Harsig]

Have now received a piece of the jigsaw. I should have said that this is at the bottom of the mechanical locking list.

My best guess as to the possible intended function of No. 23 lever would be to allow shunts to and from No. 24 road via OZ17 and OZ24. In this scenario I would imagine that reversing No. 23 lever would allow Nos. 17 & 24 signal levers to be reversed simultaneously (with 22 points lever normal), allowing the multiple shunts to be made in both directions without bothering the signalman.

As regards terminals with automatic reversing, all such examples I am aware of were at locations where the lever frame was operated by compressed air rather than by hand, and thus the signalling system itself had the ability to move points as required to achieve automatic reversal of the train. Hammersmith's lever frame was always hand worked and so could not have had this form of automatic working.

 

[Jack Barry]

My best guess as to the possible intended function of No. 23 lever would be to allow shunts to and from No. 24 road via OZ17 and OZ24. In this scenario I would imagine that reversing No. 23 lever would allow Nos. 17 & 24 signal levers to be reversed simultaneously (with 22 points lever normal), allowing the multiple shunts to be made in both directions without bothering the signalman.

As regards terminals with automatic reversing, all such examples I am aware of were at locations where the lever frame was operated by compressed air rather than by hand, and thus the signalling system itself had the ability to move points as required to achieve automatic reversal of the train. Hammersmith's lever frame was always hand worked and so could not have had this form of automatic working.

I agree with what you say about shunting and allowing those levers 17 & 24 but for some reason the scheme was altered. Re theterminals and automatic working sorry my fault I did not make it clear that it would have been an air worked frame but I don't think there has ever been a manually worked from with that feature.