Happy 20th for 170/1

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Prestige15, 15 Apr 2018 at 02:01.

  1. Prestige15

    Prestige15 Member

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    The very first Turbostars Started off with Midland Mainline, then on to Central Trains and now with Cross Country.
    Hard to believe they are now 20 years old and still going strong with its screaming fans (even though they are rather slow to accelerate compare to such as 175/185)

    In my opinion, The best all rounder DMU
     
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  3. cj_1985

    cj_1985 Member

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    Great units.
    I traveled on the MML 170s on a few occasions, and the only things that I'd complain about would be that there was very little leg room, and that she they lengthened some of them, they should have lengthened them all.
     
  4. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    went on one of the MML services that went to Barnsley and was impressed by them. . A good DMU, yes.
     
    Last edited: 15 Apr 2018 at 10:40
  5. Prestige15

    Prestige15 Member

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    I do remember being on them there were a 3 car with first class in middle with a buffett.

    I was heading to Matlock i think
     
  6. XCTurbostar

    XCTurbostar Member

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    I travel on them 4 out of 5 working days a week and I have to say that they feel very modern (they’ll be even better once free WiFi is installed) although they aren’t maintained very well.. Arriva for you.
     
  7. Pokelet

    Pokelet Member

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    Aren't the XC ones maintained at Tyseley?

    I agree, on the while though. Comfortable and capable. I travel on the WMT variants daily, leg room is ok but they are showing their age. Panel rattle and vibration can be really bad on some examples. Other than that a deep clean and a refresh would give you a respectable unit. Not sure why WMT want to replace theirs.
     
  8. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    The first ten units were lengthened to 3-car in 2001. As built all were two-car. The through Matlock workings ended when the 222s replaced the 170s as they were too heavy to run on the Matlock branch.
     
  9. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    20 years, that's amazing!

    Decent units, but I was glad when MML replaced theirs with the 222s.
     
  10. Mugby

    Mugby Established Member

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    They've proved their worth subsequently but as far as Midland Mainline was concerned, they were the most hopelessly inadequate units they could possibly have purchased. At the time though, there was perhaps nothing else available.
     
  11. xc170

    xc170 Member

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    Had to believe, really.

    Lovely units, the leg room is a little tight, but you can really get comfortable on the seats fitted to the 170/1s...

    I remember when they transferred to Central and first class section in the middle of the three car units was declassified, seeing one of these roll into the platform used to fill me with joy!
     
  12. Prestige15

    Prestige15 Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Found couple of image on google, The middle coach you can see when it also had reading lamps and a buffet
     
  13. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    The centre-car First looked very nice, but the original First Class accommodation, which the two cars retained as First (it being declassified in the 3 car sets) was pretty poor in comparison.
     
  14. xc170

    xc170 Member

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    That MML livery still looks nice 20 years on...
     
  15. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    It does indeed, also looked great on the HSTs as well :)
     
  16. cj_1985

    cj_1985 Member

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    I preferred the meridian MML livery over the original livery. would have been interesting to see the livery on the 170s
     
  17. duffield

    duffield Member

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    My most vivid memory of the 170's from the MML days was running from the Underground entrance (St. Pancras in pre Eurostar days) to hurl myself through the just closing doors of what was then the last train to Nottingham. I apologise to any passengers who were offended by my extreme panting and sweating, I think I'd made it from Liverpool street in about 12 minutes!
     
  18. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    12 minutes is impressive!
     
  19. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    Easier to do it back then, as now you'd have to go up the escalator to the upper level (through a far more crowded station full of dawdling people) then through the ticket gates!
     
  20. duffield

    duffield Member

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    Might be underestimating a tiny bit, it was a long time ago!
     
  21. atraindriver

    atraindriver Member

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    Having driven the things far too often in CT days, I'd say the 170/1s were the most absolutely awful of a class of awful units.

    I'm still not quite sure what work 170s were designed for. They didn't have the acceleration or the braking (full service excepted) for stopping services; they didn't have the capacity for interurban work (and especially not the 3-car 170/1s with that ridiculous "premier class" section in the middle car).
    A 3-car 158 had better acceleration, a better range of braking, more seats for the passengers, and back in the days before OTDR could easily top the ton.

    What else? Well...
    • There was the cab with the drivers' seat which was impossible to get comfortable, and which had to be folded over to allow you to move around the cab.
    • Self-setting DRA on the 170/1s, which might have been a great idea on an Intercity route, but on stopping services with fixed distants and warning boards everywhere, not so great.
    • Cab aircon which would require resetting (which involved dropping the roof panels) at least three times between Nottingham and Birmingham.
    • Power... Open the throttle, wait five seconds until it decided whether or not it was going to respond. Even if it did, you didn't get full power until 10mph regardless of the power notch selected, and try that game when you're stopping every 2 or 3 minutes and don't have enough time in the schedule even on full power.
    • Did I mention the braking? Every stop with a 170 was "interesting", because the braking was never quite the same twice. 153s do that, too, but generally it's only brake release where they play games; on 170s it was brake applications which you could never quite trust. The only good thing about 170 brakes was that in full service they'd seemingly stop in a platform length, but the whole train would be thrown over in the process.
    And so on.

    I absolutely detested the 170s (does it show?), and especially the 170/1s when NatX decided to dump them onto CT once MML had no further use for them.

    If a 15x turned up in place of a 170, a CT driver would always breathe a sigh of relief. More comfortable, more responsive, more predictable, and just as able to keep time on CT's schedules.

    The best all-round DMU is the 156. Simple, robust and they just seem to keep on going. Just a shame they never seem to have working saloon heating any more.
     
  22. XCTurbostar

    XCTurbostar Member

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    I agree with atraindriver, I genuinely would take a 156 or a 158 instead of these XC 170s.

    One of the most annoying things from a passenger perspective is the cold draught which fills the entire coach when the doors are open. This isn’t so much of a problem on the 170/1 centre cars because they retained the square door surrounds from the first class doors so they help. For that I prefer a 156 or 158.

    Having said that, I hope they aren’t replaced in the next franchise because I’d gladly put up with it if it meant not having to sit on an ironing board on my way to and from work!
     
  23. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    After Central Trains took them on & kept them in MML livery Anglia was struggling for units one Saturday (nothing changes) & due to engineering on the Ely line two of their 170s where spare at Norwich. The duty traincrew manager that day got me to do a double shunt to ensure the one we hired was the one blocked in in that livery as was the first & only time we would get those colours to Great Yarmouth.
     
  24. squizzler

    squizzler Member

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    They were a welcome indicator of progress when they appeared, a visible sign that the privatised railway was finally beginning to deliver the promised investment.

    Not withstanding the objections by those who actually have to run them for a living, the impression I get (influenced by various Walmsley articles on the bombardier *star family) is that they were a pretty good stab at a go-anywhere, do-anything sort of train that leasing firms wanted. That said, that was then, and I expect the 195 will look like the Starship Enterprise by comparison.
     
  25. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    A true son of the similarly long-lasting Met-Camm Class 101! :)

    Just a shame the same factory went on to build the utter rubbish that is the Class 175/180.
     
  26. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    Fine for reasonably short journeys. Inverness to Glasgow too long, noisy cold and very rattly.

    Be glad to see the HST
     
  27. Grumpy

    Grumpy Member

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    I hadn't been on one for a while until last week between Edinburgh and Glasgow. The ride seemed rough although that could have been the track.
    Shame the need to build down to a price meant they didn't use the 158 bogies
     
  28. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Member

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    I've only experienced 170s on Ipswich to Liverpool Street services back in NXEA days. They were hopelessly inadequate for the purpose but I imagine would be luxury on the Wherry Lines in rural Norfolk. They did sound like they were about to fall apart at 100mph when they were relatively new though.
     
  29. Kneedown

    Kneedown Established Member

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    I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, although I accept it's a matter of horses for courses.
    I found the seat more comfortable than any Sprinter, and the general cab view and ambience far superior.
    The brakes on the /1's were no worse than a 158, although those on the CT /5's and 6's were far superior. The braking point for Loughborough, southbound from 100mph was the bridge under the A6004 with a /5 or 6. The first person to try it with a /1 nearly came a cropper though. A notice was hastily cobbled together and distributed! Lack of compressor speed up was also an issue although this was addressed much later. There were a few other minor issues but we must remember that the /1's were, in effect the prototypes. Later versions were much improved.
    On any run, long or short, i'd take a 170 over any Sprinter, and certainly a 156.
     
  30. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Have these defects in the 170/1s now been remedied or are they significantly different for crews from the other 170s that they are now pooled with in the XC fleet?
     
  31. Kneedown

    Kneedown Established Member

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    If I remember correctly, towards the end of CT, the brake cylinder pressures were adjusted to bring them more in line with tje /5's and 6's. A retrofit compressor speed up was also being installed. Acceleration was still sluggish compared to a 158, and the flashing level 3 HVAC fault light was still an almost permanent fixture on shutting down the cab.
    Maybe any XC Drivers out there could elaborate on any further improvements?
     

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