Happy Birthday A320

[starrymarkb]

25 years ago today the Airbus A320 made it's first flight. Certainly it shook up the industry

 

[Schnellzug]

After a bit of a shaky start (Indian Airlines), it does seem to have established something of a niche for itself.

 

[WestCoast]

After a bit of a shaky start (Indian Airlines), it does seem to have established something of a niche for itself.

The A320 series has been the only serious challenger to the ubiquitous 737 and has outsold its rival in some regions.

 

[Sun!]

'Niche' lol.

Obviously me and the dictionary, and you have definitions. The A320 has outsold the 737 for the last couple of years.

Indeed. US Airways, BA, Iberia, KLM, Aeroflot, easyjet, China Southern, Delta Airlines, Finnair, United Airlines, China Eastern, JetBlue, Lufthansa, South African Airways, LAN, Aviancia, Air Canada, Alitalia are just a few of the operators of the A320 family.

 

[starrymarkb]

'Niche' lol.

Obviously me and the dictionary, and you have definitions. The A320 has outsold the 737 for the last couple of years.

Indeed. US Airways, BA, Iberia, KLM, Aeroflot, easyjet, China Southern, Delta Airlines, Finnair, United Airlines, China Eastern, JetBlue, Lufthansa, South African Airways, LAN, Aviancia, Air Canada, Alitalia are just a few of the operators of the A320 family.

about 5000 have been delivered, there are at about 1500 more on order!

 

[WestCoast]

I do wonder for how much longer the Boeing-Airbus duopoly in the 130 - 190 seat market will last.

The Bombardier CS300 will seat up to a maximum of 145 passengers in "low cost" configuration, which compares to 156 on a easyJet Airbus A319. BA's A319s seat 129 passengers in a two class configuration, and it's thought that a CS300 would seat 125 passengers in this layout.

 

[jopsuk]

about 5000 have been delivered, there are at about 1500 more on order!

Aye, only about 2000 less than the Boeing 737 which had a twenty five year head start on it.

 

[lookingforit35]

Aye, only about 2000 less than the Boeing 737 which had a twenty five year head start on it.

Not sure this is correct. I think the line numbers were "zeroed" when construction of the classic 737 ended, and the NG range began.

 

[futureA]

It allowed Airbus to rise from the ranks of niche player to serious contender. With the advent of the NEO it probably has at least 15 years of life left in it.

Happy birthday a320!

 

[Schnellzug]

737 production, i find, just out of interest:
1200 (give or take) -200,
1100 -300,
500 -400,
400 -500,
70 -600,
1100 -700,
2400 -800,
160 -900,
140 BBJ.
So yes, Airbus haven't done bad in their niche market, have they.

 

[WestCoast]

The 737-100 and 737-200 were not competitors to the A320, they came too early.

The A320 competes with the 737NG really (737-600/700/800/900).

 

[moonrakerz]

I remember a (long!) while back traveling on a British Midland 737 which had a plaque mounted just inside the front passenger door stating that this particular aircraft was the one that had broken the 727's record for the number of any airliner built. According to Boeing that was 1831, so the 737 was No 1832.
Now they have built 9300 737s and about 8300 A320s................

Looks like air travel might catch on !

 

[Schnellzug]

I remember a (long!) while back traveling on a British Midland 737 which had a plaque mounted just inside the front passenger door stating that this particular aircraft was the one that had broken the 727's record for the number of any airliner built. According to Boeing that was 1831, so the 737 was No 1832.
Now they have built 9300 737s and about 8300 A320s................

Looks like air travel might catch on !

That'd be G-OBMH, which was line #1831, new in 1990, now ZS-OAH with Comair in South Africa, apparently.

 

[Nym]

Also quite handy that the A318 is cleared out of LCY, saw it take off and it's so much bigger than all them E190/E195s E170/E175s and BAe jets taking off in the morning peak...

 

[WestCoast]

Also quite handy that the A318 is cleared out of LCY, saw it take off and it's so much bigger than all them E190/E195s E170/E175s and BAe jets taking off in the morning peak...

Don't forget the turboprops at London City - Fokker 50s, ATRs, Bombardier Q400s and Dornier 328s. They are the least costly aircraft to operate on short hop routes out of a place like that.

The A318 is only on the New York service, and it has to make a fuel stop in Shannon. If an Embraer E195 could make the journey across the Atlantic, BA would use that! The A318 is much like the Boeing 737-600, too costly in terms of fuel for the passenger capacity it offers (if in "normal" short-haul configuration). It only works at London City because of the all business class configuration.

 

[Nym]

Aye, but thanks to BA Stupidity compared to the likes of what AF, KLM and Lufthansa did it has completely sold off and lost contact with it's reigonal arm and BA CityFlyer is still seperate and not doing that well. If it where still held in a structure like it's european counterparts, I'd recon on E195s running the New York route, in fact, I wouldn't put it past a company like Virgin Atlantic to try it, or BMI if it was still going...

 

[WestCoast]

Aye, but thanks to BA Stupidity compared to the likes of what AF, KLM and Lufthansa did it has completely sold off and lost contact with it's reigonal arm and BA CityFlyer is still seperate and not doing that well. If it where still held in a structure like it's european counterparts, I'd recon on E195s running the New York route, in fact, I wouldn't put it past a company like Virgin Atlantic to try it, or BMI if it was still going...

BA Connect was sold to Flybe which ran the non-London regional routes from Manchester/Birmingham/Newcastle e.t.c with Avros, Dash 8s and E145s, however BA CityFlyer which runs the London City routes (although it's based at Manchester bizarrely!) is a fully owned subsidiary of BA. They have some quite fierce competition from CityJet (who are an Air France-KLM group airline), but BA appear to be doing quite well there.

 

[starrymarkb]

Aye, but thanks to BA Stupidity compared to the likes of what AF, KLM and Lufthansa did it has completely sold off and lost contact with it's reigonal arm and BA CityFlyer is still seperate and not doing that well. If it where still held in a structure like it's european counterparts, I'd recon on E195s running the New York route, in fact, I wouldn't put it past a company like Virgin Atlantic to try it, or BMI if it was still going...

In most cases the regional arm exists to feed long haul. Certainly KLM with no domestic services of their own operate from all manner of small places to AMS, similarly BA run a fairly intensive service from smaller airports in neighbouring countries to Heathrow to feed the long haul network, they might make a loss on Nice to Heathrow, but the profits from the long haul routes make up for it. Also Heathrow's slot constraints and the well developed surface transport system don't help matters. BMI tried going down the feeding network (Star Alliance) route, but the feeding airline only gets a small portion of the fare. A rail example would be a £50 fare from a junction to London, or £50.50 from Branch station when it normally costs £5 from Branch station to Junction.

 

[WestCoast]

In most cases the regional arm exists to feed long haul. Certainly KLM with no domestic services of their own operate from all manner of small places to AMS, similarly BA run a fairly intensive service from smaller airports in neighbouring countries to Heathrow to feed the long haul network. Also Heathrow's slot constraints and the well developed surface transport system don't help matters.

BA don't have to rely on connecting traffic as much the other European airlines, as the Origin & Departure market for London and the South East is larger than the likes of AMS e.t.c.

 

[Nym]

Aye, but if the operations of FlyBE had been kept similar to those of KLM CityHopper, Air France Réigonal etc. combined with a remaining presence at Manchester beyond the odd flights to LHR, BA would be in a better position now in UK Reigonal airports than they are now with FlyBE competing directly with BA on some routes.

 

[WestCoast]

Aye, but if the operations of FlyBE had been kept similar to those of KLM CityHopper, Air France Réigonal etc. combined with a remaining presence at Manchester beyond the odd flights to LHR, BA would be in a better position now in UK Reigonal airports than they are now with FlyBE competing directly with BA on some routes.

I agree, but if you try and argue that on the Airliners.net forum, the BA fanboys don't like it (it always seems that BA can do no wrong) and they talk about about how BA is aiming the product at "affluent people" and "business travellers" who always travel from LHR/LCY. :roll:

 

[starrymarkb]

Aye, but if the operations of FlyBE had been kept similar to those of KLM CityHopper, Air France Réigonal etc. combined with a remaining presence at Manchester beyond the odd flights to LHR, BA would be in a better position now in UK Reigonal airports than they are now with FlyBE competing directly with BA on some routes.

I think you'll find that on some Flybe routes to London they also carry a BA flight number, just as on routes to Paris they have an AF flight number and on routes to Manchester an EY number.

BA, AF and Etihad sell seats on Flybe aircraft (can be useful, Flybe charge for bags, book through BA or Air Frog and they are free)

 

[WestCoast]

I think you'll find that on some Flybe routes to London they also carry a BA flight number, just as on routes to Paris they have an AF flight number and on routes to Manchester an EY number.

Flybe aren't really much of a BA feeder, as they don't fly to LHR or LCY, only LGW, where BA connections are limited to lower-frequency 'leisure routes'.

 

[Nym]

I think you'll find that on some Flybe routes to London they also carry a BA flight number, just as on routes to Paris they have an AF flight number and on routes to Manchester an EY number.

BA, AF and Etihad sell seats on Flybe aircraft (can be useful, Flybe charge for bags, book through BA or Air Frog and they are free)

I know, but the're not an arms length operation like KLM-CH or AF-R etc. Running only with AF/KLM/BA Flight numbers... Everything FlyBE do is simply codesharing.

 

[83G/84D]

25 years ago today the Airbus A320 made it's first flight. Certainly it shook up the industry

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the first or second built A320 used to be on the dump at Brussels Airport, shame it wasn't preserved.

 

[Schnellzug]

Number 001 is apparently still active in the Airbus test fleet as F-WWBA. The oldest one in active service is 029, now with Jordan Aviation.

 

[starrymarkb]

Number 1 is indeed still flying. It's currently flight testing Sharklets.