Hardest station to depart from?

[4-SUB 4732]

Departing P3 at Victoria always took a certain leap of faith - waiting for the red at the end of P2 to step up.

That is the one situation where I was taught by my DI to actively drive towards a red signal, anticipating that it would change, on the basis that if you slowed down too much, you’d gap it. I used to ignore that advice, because I’d far rather gap a train than have a SPAD.

London Victoria. From the politics of the shared messroom, to the tramps outside who threaten to assault you, to the truly appalling signalling in and out. It’s a truly horrible station, in every conceivable way.

It gets my vote for the station I’m the most grateful to never have to drive into/out of again.

Classic.

Unlike our mutual friend who managed to gap at Cannon Street - very impressive...

 

[CHAPS2034]

I remember travelling on a Pacer from Paignton to Newton Abbot a few years ago. The leaves were just starting to fall and it was a grey day with a drizzle coming down. I had a connection to make at Newton Abbot.

I was wondering whether we would manage to make a start from Torre, which is uphill (1 in75) on a bit of a bend. We did manage to get started and keep going very slowly, so kudos to the driver for their skill which enabled me to make the connection.

On another occasion behind a pair of 37s on a railtour coming out of Leeds towards Morley one dark and wet Saturday night, we ground to a halt around Cottingley, but eventually got going again after a few minutes.

And on the RPSI 2018 tour in Northern Ireland behind Q class 4-4-0 131 travelling backwards, we took about 30 minutes to climb the bank off the little used Crumlin line to get to into Antrim station. Much reversing and applications of sand by the crew finally got us there!

 

[43066]

Classic.

Unlike our mutual friend who managed to gap at Cannon Street - very impressive...

Indeed.

He did get to drive a 14(?) car networker formation back into the station, as I recall, after receiving assistance from the rear (ooh matron).

Some people get all the luck!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

EDIT: it’s worth pointing out that 319s are particularly badly affected by low adhesion, due to having only one motor coach per four car unit.

Probably explains why Balcombe on the Brighton Main Line was regularly skip stopped, one direction only (uphill), during adverse weather / poor track adhesion conditions.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Indeed.

He did get to drive a 14(?) car networker formation back into the station, as I recall, after receiving assistance from the rear (ooh matron).

Some people get all the luck!

Oh yeah that's what you really want.....

 

[fgwrich]

I'm led to believe Hamble & Bursledon can be tricky stations to depart from due to the curve / gradient / tree lined cuttings.

 

[peakNed]

Classic.

Unlike our mutual friend who managed to gap at Cannon Street - very impressive...

I blame poor regulation by the signaller... wouldn’t have gapped if I could’ve kept going!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I blame poor regulation by the signaller... wouldn’t have gapped if I could’ve kept going!

I heard there was also a lot of weight on that day - somewhere in the cab area...

 

[43066]

I blame poor regulation by the signaller... wouldn’t have gapped if I could’ve kept going!

Very, very good going to gap a six car, it has to be said.

 

[rick_suffolk]

How about the platform at kings X suburban (was it 16 or 17?) from moorgate. A 6 car cravens (3 x power trailer sets) really struggled with full load of commuters

 

[apinnard]

I believe Wivenhoe can/used to be a bit of a pain in the wrong conditions.

 

[CC 72100]

Chippenham westbound. And lately the trains seem to do a brake test of sorts just after starting off as well.

Yes! I'm glad it has not just me who has noticed this new brake test after departing on the down. Not done at a particularly high speed (25mph tops) and likely with the Guard still at the panel at that point.

Interestingly this has only been very recently in my experience and didn't start with the start of the 'traditional' low adhesion season.

 

[Mat17]

How about the platform at kings X suburban (was it 16 or 17?) from moorgate. A 6 car cravens (3 x power trailer sets) really struggled with full load of commuters

Cravens full stop really. I presume a lot of power/trailer combinations would struggle due to power/weight ratio, even more prevalent with heavyweights like 114s.

 

[Whistler40145]

I remember in the days of Regional Railways Blackpool North to Liverpool Lime Street loco hauled services either hauled by a 31 or 37 struggling to depart from Bryn towards Garswood, on one occasion when the 37 couldn't get a decent grip, the driver decided to roll back out of the station, whack the power handle fully open and it did the trick

 

[Inversnecky]

North Queensferry seems to be a challenge if you’re driving a Western.

Video is D1015 Western Champion slipping spectacularly with sparks flying.

wow, the angle grinder train!

I take it he got going eventually?

 

[Crossover]

I think I read a few years ago that Exeter St Davids to Exeter Central trains must be signalled all the way into the platform, lest they have to stop at the signal halfway up.

Be it on Simsig, I believe you are right. The same coming down the hill too - it seems the starter at Central won't clear until a route is set into the platform

 

[Deepgreen]

I think I read a few years ago that Exeter St Davids to Exeter Central trains must be signalled all the way into the platform, lest they have to stop at the signal halfway up.

May as well remove the signal then.

 

[L401CJF]

Yes, 1 in 27.
There are also sections at 1 in 26/27 in the Mersey Tunnel, but departures into the Tunnel from Hamilton Square & James Street are both downhill. These days, most drivers seem to apply low power down the gradients, and only increase power when the climb starts. In the past, there were very rare occasions when drivers must have applied full power all the way until it was time to brake, and (now impossible) times of just under 2 minutes were obtained between the two stations.

Yes I had noticed that too, usually from Hamilton Square toward Liverpool they seem to apply a small amount of power then shut off and let it coast down the hill. Gone are the days of full acceleration, slam on the brakes for Paradise Jn then full power up to James Street with full brakes into the station!

 

[sw1ller]

Hawarden during leaf fall. Shotton HL can be just as bad but I’d have to give it to hawarden.

 

[DorkingMain]

Stations along the Aldershot - Ascot branch can be difficult due to low adhesion combined with a steep incline. The 456 pairs that ran on the route sometimes used to struggle.

Awkward signalling can be another factor - the signal at Ashtead is 300m from the down platform and not visible depending on where you stop. The main platform at Bentley would catch out crew whose route knowledge wasn't up to scratch, as you could see the down starting signal for the loop from the platform but there was no starting signal for the main platform.

 

[Vespa]

I

Hamilton Square on Merseyrail has a bit of a slope I think.

I believe the 503 struggled out of Moorfield incline toward Sandhills as it was designed for the Wirral which is flatter so less torque is needed.

The incline is still steep today.

 

[507 001]

I

I believe the 503 struggled out of Moorfield incline toward Sandhills as it was designed for the Wirral which is flatter so less torque is needed.

The incline is still steep today.

The 503s were designed for hill climbing (in the tunnels). The 502s were designed for speed. It was the 502s that struggled with gradients, particularly Leeds St Bank as you mentioned.

 

[Vespa]

I'm amazed the driver kept the power on for so long! Surely this will have done significant damage to the rails? I suppose the wheels will be relatively unaffected but surely the rail is at risk of being ground down?

I'm suprised at such bad driving surely he could have dropped sand before setting off to get a bit of grip, just spinning going nowhere will cause a dip in the rail.

The 503s were designed for hill climbing (in the tunnels). The 502s were designed for speed. It was the 502s that struggled with gradients, particularly Leeds St Bank as you mentioned.

You sure ?
Because if I recall 502 was designed for the Exchange Station station to Southport line while 503 is for the Wirral line before they were both connected up.

Edit: Did some checking it seems that it was 502 that struggled, while it was the 503 that coped well with it as it had the torque designed handle the incline out of central toward hamilton Square and beyond.

 

[507 001]

I'm suprised at such bad driving surely he could have dropped sand before setting off to get a bit of grip, just spinning going nowhere will cause a dip in the rail.


You sure ?
Because if I recall 502 was designed for the Exchange Station station to Southport line while 503 is for the Wirral line before they were both connected up.

Edit: Did some checking it seems that it was 502 that struggled, while it was the 503 that coped well with it as it had the torque designed handle the incline out of central toward hamilton Square and beyond.

Yes. Certain. The Line out to Southport is straight and flat. The line through the Mersey Railway tunnel is extremely steep...

502s never really worked the Wirral (until preservation) and I believe were banned from the loop due to being too long and too wide.

 

[Doomotron]

Ebbsfleet? You have to pretty much full throttle it to get up the hill from what I've heard.

 

[gallafent]

wow, the angle grinder train!

I take it he got going eventually?

Yes, there's another video from the same user of a successful departure!

 

[hermit]

How about the platform at kings X suburban (was it 16 or 17?) from moorgate. A 6 car cravens (3 x power trailer sets) really struggled with full load of commuters

Indeed. I’m old enough to remember standing on that grimy platform and hearing the sound of J50s and N2s with sets of Gresley artics working hard up the gradient before emerging dramatically from the smoke-filled tunnel to the platform, and then struggling to start again. The sharp curves in the tunnel and on the platform didn’t help. Sights, sounds and smells that now seem a world away.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Although not hard to depart from my dad commented that the island platform on the Down at Basingstoke had a little camber on the track. Because of this the Bulleid pacifics tended to slip at a particular point. Since then I have noticed the odd diesel loco have a little flutter in that position whilst departing westwards towards Worting Jn.

Oh my! Indeed, my abiding memory is of Bulleids slipping on the down when starting from Basingstoke - it was just standard practice, it seemed. And in 1965, when steam had largely disappeared from my part of the world, it was wonderful! Like going back in time - and I was only 13.

Of course later, I learned that it was mostly unrebuilt light pacifics. At the time, I never noticed any difference, though I'm certainly open to accepting the rebuilds were more sure footed.

But I never knew there was any camber on the track there, or that this helped to induce slipping.

 

[nlogax]

Indeed. I’m old enough to remember standing on that grimy platform and hearing the sound of J50s and N2s with sets of Gresley artics working hard up the gradient before emerging dramatically from the smoke-filled tunnel to the platform, and then struggling to start again. The sharp curves in the tunnel and on the platform didn’t help. Sights, sounds and smells that now seem a world away.

Going by a few old clips on YT I've watched over the years, the ascent of Hotel Curve always looked like a dicey thing if pulling away from a stop at the old station and limited to slow speeds in the tunnel. Wish I'd been around to see those services, looks incredibly atmospheric.

(scroll to 1m 40 onwards to see what I mean)

 

[Efini92]

It's pretty to hard to depart from Denton and Reddish South stations - there are only two trains a week.

Last time I went through Denton there was two deer on the platform.