• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Hardest station to depart from?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Essexman

Established Member
Joined
15 Mar 2011
Messages
1,380
Murthwaite Halt on the Ravenglass & Eskdale. They don't like to stop there in the Dalegarth direction. When I used it the guard was quite relieved that I wouldn't be returning to Dalegarth but was walking down to Miteside.
 

father_jack

Member
Joined
26 Jan 2010
Messages
1,118
wow, the angle grinder train!

I take it he got going eventually?
Apparently the driver got beat over the back of the head by the travelling fitter who emerged from the engine room into the cab at a rapid rate, there was a defect with the loco and the driver should have known that if he wasn't moving after applying so much power something was amiss.
 

InOban

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
4,208
I can remember an excursion, I think steam-hauled, getting stuck climbing out of Oban up to Glencruitten summit. Not helped by the tight curves with check rails, as you approach the top.
 

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,911
Location
Lancashire
I can remember an excursion, I think steam-hauled, getting stuck climbing out of Oban up to Glencruitten summit. Not helped by the tight curves with check rails, as you approach the top.
I've been on a railtour out of Oban, 37114 on load 16, was a struggle, took ages, lots of slipping, high water temperature
 

Dave W

Member
Joined
27 Sep 2019
Messages
586
Location
North London
In years gone by, Cradley Heath towards Birmingham?

Imprinted on my memory from the late 80s are the ageing Class 116s struggling to get up Old Hill Bank with a full load of commuters.
A good example - I'm a bit young for the 116s, but the difference between the knackered 150s and the 172s was remarkable - 150s would be powering all the way up through the tunnel until Rowley - the first 172 I got (probably first month or two of service) the driver throttled back BEFORE the tunnel began! Not sure the same applies some 10-15 years later!
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,340
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
Queen Street has been mentioned as hard for the loco(s), driver, etc., but it was also quite hard for passengers who would have the coach filled with fumes and deafening noise in Cowlairs tunnel! I remember frequent WHL trips with one or two 27s at the head, and the roar and stench were powerful indeed. Steam days must have been something special!

I've been on a railtour out of Oban, 37114 on load 16, was a struggle, took ages, lots of slipping, high water temperature
Very surprised that; a) 16 coaches would be allowed on the WHL with passing loops being short in places, and; b) that a single 37 would be given the task!

Apparently the driver got beat over the back of the head by the travelling fitter who emerged from the engine room into the cab at a rapid rate, there was a defect with the loco and the driver should have known that if he wasn't moving after applying so much power something was amiss.
Exactly - it was amateurish driving at best, and almost criminal damage at worst!

Indeed.

He did get to drive a 14(?) car networker formation back into the station, as I recall, after receiving assistance from the rear (ooh matron).

Some people get all the luck!
I had always thought that no more than 12 car 465/466s could operate for current draw reasons.
 
Last edited:

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,911
Location
Lancashire
Queen Street has been mentioned as hard for the loco(s), driver, etc., but it was also quite hard for passengers who would have the coach filled with fumes and deafening noise in Cowlairs tunnel! I remember frequent WHL trips with one or two 27s at the head, and the roar and stench were powerful indeed. Steam days must have been something special!


Very surprised that; a) 16 coaches would be allowed on the WHL with passing loops being short in places, and; b) that a single 37 would be given the task!
37023 which was in the pair with 37114 failed near Crianlarich on the return from Fort William and Railtrack had to give permission for a single 37 to work to Oban and back, because the nearest spare 37 was at Motherwell TMD, 37116 was dispatched light engine to work back to Rugby with 37114 from Crianlarich
 

MrEd

Member
Joined
13 Jan 2019
Messages
587
Many thanks! My experience was with 67009 on a very wet morning in October 2014, so I wonder if 67s have frequently come to grief there? I seem to remember 67020 really struggling on the gradient there back in August 2017, and heard reports that 67003 slipped to a stand there in the autumn of that year. The pairs of 73/9s seem to manage it with comparative ease.
 

snookertam

Member
Joined
22 Sep 2018
Messages
774
Queen Street has been mentioned as hard for the loco(s), driver, etc., but it was also quite hard for passengers who would have the coach filled with fumes and deafening noise in Cowlairs tunnel! I remember frequent WHL trips with one or two 27s at the head, and the roar and stench were powerful indeed. Steam days must have been something special!

Didn’t the diverted sleeper get overpowered trying to get out of Queen Street a couple of years ago?
 

MrEd

Member
Joined
13 Jan 2019
Messages
587
Had to remove the Blair Atholl stop from the sleeper during the autumn months in response.

Exhibition Centre on the Argyle Line heading towards Finnieston East Jn and Partick. Even electric units have become stuck there having set off from the platform and had to set back to try again.

Sorry missed the post above.
When was the Blair Atholl stop removed? what years? I have often still been asleep on 1S25 northbound at that point, but I was never aware that the stop had been removed. Did it come back with the 73/9s? I notice it’s been back ever since the Mk5s were introduced.

That day I had 67020 back in 2017 I definitely remember there being a Blair Atholl stop. Perhaps Serco reinstated it?
 

CW2

Established Member
Joined
7 May 2020
Messages
1,922
Location
Crewe
Many thanks! My experience was with 67009 on a very wet morning in October 2014, so I wonder if 67s have frequently come to grief there? I seem to remember 67020 really struggling on the gradient there back in August 2017, and heard reports that 67003 slipped to a stand there in the autumn of that year. The pairs of 73/9s seem to manage it with comparative ease.
On this occasion we waited for a 66 to be sent out from Inverness to assist. In the end the sun came up and dried the rails a bit, so we got going anyway. At Dalwhinnie we stopped at the outer home for the 66 to cross over and attach in the platform. Some misunderstanding resulted in the 67 proceeding towards the platform at the same time as the 66 was heading straight towards it. A hurried application of the brakes, and fresh underwear all round, and nothing more was said!
 

snookertam

Member
Joined
22 Sep 2018
Messages
774
When was the Blair Atholl stop removed? what years? I have often still been asleep on 1S25 northbound at that point, but I was never aware that the stop had been removed. Did it come back with the 73/9s? I notice it’s been back ever since the Mk5s were introduced.

That day I had 67020 back in 2017 I definitely remember there being a Blair Atholl stop. Perhaps Serco reinstated it?
Definitely pre 2017, I think it would’ve been around 2013/14 if memory serves me right. Only during autumn northbound.
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
935
A good example - I'm a bit young for the 116s, but the difference between the knackered 150s and the 172s was remarkable - 150s would be powering all the way up through the tunnel until Rowley - the first 172 I got (probably first month or two of service) the driver throttled back BEFORE the tunnel began! Not sure the same applies some 10-15 years later!
Well, i don't know how he wouldve throttled back before the tunnel began. Its an uphill grade all the way into Rowley Regis. The 172 wouldve come to a stand well before reaching the other end of the tunnel. We don't shut off the power until coming out of the other end of Old Hill tunnel.
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,340
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
Many thanks! My experience was with 67009 on a very wet morning in October 2014, so I wonder if 67s have frequently come to grief there? I seem to remember 67020 really struggling on the gradient there back in August 2017, and heard reports that 67003 slipped to a stand there in the autumn of that year. The pairs of 73/9s seem to manage it with comparative ease.
Being relatively lightweight Bo-Bos, 67s are built for speed rather than tractive effort, so unsurprising that they struggle on climbs. With the same hp, a pair of 73/9s has twice the number of powered axles as a single 67.

37023 which was in the pair with 37114 failed near Crianlarich on the return from Fort William and Railtrack had to give permission for a single 37 to work to Oban and back, because the nearest spare 37 was at Motherwell TMD, 37116 was dispatched light engine to work back to Rugby with 37114 from Crianlarich
A-ha. Still, do 16 coaches and two 37s fit in the passing loops?
 

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,911
Location
Lancashire
Being relatively lightweight Bo-Bos, 67s are built for speed rather than tractive effort, so unsurprising that they struggle on climbs. With the same hp, a pair of 73/9s has twice the number of powered axles as a single 67.


A-ha. Still, do 16 coaches and two 37s fit in the passing loops?
It happened in 1999
 

MrEd

Member
Joined
13 Jan 2019
Messages
587
I was surprised hear of 73s in Aberdeen and other non electrified routes, as I understood their diesel power output was only 600hp and wondered how they’d be up to the task, but a search has updated me about some being refitted with much more powerful engines:

That’s right, the 73/9s used to haul the sleeper portions north of Edinburgh are fitted with 1600hp MTU diesel engines, effectively giving them a Type 3 power rating (they‘re 50hp more powerful than a Class 33). This means that they can haul the Fort William and Aberdeen portions singly, and the Inverness portion in pairs. With a pair offering 3,200hp and considerably more tractive effort, they significantly outperform 67s on the Inverness route.

Being relatively lightweight Bo-Bos, 67s are built for speed rather than tractive effort, so unsurprising that they struggle on climbs. With the same hp, a pair of 73/9s has twice the number of powered axles as a single 67.


A-ha. Still, do 16 coaches and two 37s fit in the passing loops?
I always thought the lightweight 67 was a very strange choice of loco for the Highland sleeper routes, where pulling power and hill-climbing ability are far more important than top speed, but it was probably the only loco class available which had ETS and wasn’t life expired (as the 47/7s which worked on the Aberdeen and Inverness routes truly were). I wonder if it would have been worth trying to keep the 37s going (at least on the Fort William route) for a few more years? That said, no one could have foreseen the development of 73/9s back in 2006.
 

FenMan

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2011
Messages
1,361
165/166s can struggle mightily to get going when departing from Sandhurst northbound during leaf fall season. Given the comments upthread I'm not exactly looking forward to finding out how the converted 319s will fare.
 

Adam0984

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2014
Messages
1,072
Had a 142 out of Bradford Int towards in Leeds in leaf fall season crawling up at about 2mph with the wheel slip protection constantly kicking in. And of course I had a man on who needed to get to Leeds because his wife was having a baby!! The signaller said do we want to 155 that was behind us to couple up to us, the driver said while we were still moving then we'd keep going.
Also heard of a 142 getting stuck on Crimple curve on the Harrogate line because it had a brand new wheel set on that wouldn't go round the sharp curve have also had others that have gone round on full power to get it round
 

steamybrian

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2010
Messages
1,744
Location
Kent
If we are recalling the past then a mention for the now closed Folkestone Harbour station.

Trains starting from there had over a mile at 1 in 37 before stopping at Folkestone East (formerly Junction) to reverse. If the sea was rough or low sea mist then it was greasy rails to contend with. In the days of steam it must have been interesting even with banking locos.
 

John C

Member
Joined
3 Dec 2011
Messages
171
I would say platform 5 at Shipley with it been on quite a sharp curve, but also more difficult from the conductors perspective with visibility when dispatching the train, usually having to walk the width of the platform from the middle of the train when releasing and closing the doors.
 

DorkingMain

Member
Joined
25 Aug 2020
Messages
692
Location
London, UK
I had always thought that no more than 12 car 465/466s could operate for current draw reasons.
Yes - there's normally a maximum on how many coaches are permitted in a formation but for rescue purposes this can be exceeded - the rescue set is then split at the first opportunity.
 

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
4,003
If we are recalling the past then a mention for the now closed Folkestone Harbour station.

Trains starting from there had over a mile at 1 in 37 before stopping at Folkestone East (formerly Junction) to reverse. If the sea was rough or low sea mist then it was greasy rails to contend with. In the days of steam it must have been interesting even with banking locos.
I have done some steam charters up that branch, the noise is wonderful.:D
 

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
4,495
Isn’t Abergavenny on a decent incline? I seem to remember a struggle up the hill on a steam excursion in 2019 after a caution signal at said location. Departing can’t be easy, especially with older stock.
Yes there is a steep climb to Llanvihangel. A 150/158/175 typically gets to the summit at 45 mph from a stand. Year before last I was on a 175 that really struggled on the damp rails and hit the summit at 7 mph; took about 15 minutes.

By way of comparison a few years ago I did a 150 up from a stand at Bromsgrove and it got to the summit of Lickey at 30 mph.

Indeed. Always interesting including with Class 45 and loco hauled coaching stock. Did it dozens and dozens of times. Electrification should make a difference one would have thought.

I immediately thought of this epic struggle (see video link below) with 37410 hauling dead 37417 and, I think, 12 carriages. I've tried to count the number of slips and failed! The daft thing is that the train was held at Victoria for around 20 minutes whilst they had a debate about whether a single 37 would make it. During that time it started drizzling which didn't improve its chances!

Edit: I like the mini snorts at 5:10 and 6:02.

 
Last edited:

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,399
Location
UK
Yes - there's normally a maximum on how many coaches are permitted in a formation but for rescue purposes this can be exceeded - the rescue set is then split at the first opportunity.

The current draw is never exceeded. As mentioned earlier, the motors get cut out.
 

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
4,495
From a passenger perspective, I always thought it was difficult to despatch a train from Waterloo East platform A to London Bridge due to the number of passengers on the platform in the rush hour, front and rear platform entrances and a curved platform.
London Bridge was fun in EPB days. Wasn't unusual to hear ding ding with doors still open. In the peaks there was a near constant stream of passengers arriving at the platform rushing for the nearest door. Having said that, I never saw anything bad happen. Occasionally a passenger would struggle to get a door shut so the guard would give one on the bell and stop the train.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top