Has an EMU ever run out of traction rail ?

[Bald Rick]

I’m sure it happened with a 700 earlier this year with the pantograph not being lowered and therefore striking the building on the approach to Blackfriars from City Thameslink.

Yes, because it had come from Smithfield sidings.

 

[ComUtoR]

Running off the con rail? Must have had quite the head of steam from Farringdon!

Effective coasting..

However I'm sure the intent of the op is for EMUs that run out of juice. I used to hate running up the fasts to Bedford purely because I'd get nervous of a wrong route.

Used to happen regularly, before the Class 700s arrived. There are still dents in the ceiling of Blackfriars station if you know where to look. In fact it still does, as the Smithfield sidings are not wired.

I know a man who put one of those dents there. The old wall at Farringdon was worse

I can't recall any 465s accidentally going into Farringdon back in the day but there have been incidents with pantographs up going into Smithfield. What I have done is run past City Thameslink and completely forgot to put the pan up.

3rd rail land has many gaps. Gapping a unit is quite common. Personally I've gapped twice.

 

[Gulf1159]

Yes years ago at Redhill, drove a 2car sub train too far in the down siding and came off the third rail. Depot Forman was not pleased as he had to get a loco to drag it back onto third rail!!

same been gapped several times!!

hope my manager isn’t reading this LOL

 

[paul1609]

There's several locations where DC EMUs coast through gaps in the third rail. One is Ford Station on the West Coastway where there is a gap mid platform to accommodate a metal subway which coincides with the level crossing to the east of the station for 313/2s and 377/3s.

 

[Andrew1395]

Happened to a 501 unit at Watford Junction. Staff got to it and pushed it back to the point where it picked up the juice rail. Don’t tell anyone though,there might still be forms to fill in.

 

[trainmania100]

Happened to me on a 387 outside of blackfriars a few years ago. Although not in the sense that you mean.
The 387 seemingly stopped on a section with a break in 3rd rail on a red signal, the driver had to roll the train back with the brakes.

 

[43066]

It's happened at Bedford a fair few times.

Not many “traction rails” at Bedford

 

[Vespa]

It's happened on Merseyrail a few times!

Did it ever happen at Southport ?

There's quite a few lines without juice rails in the station area.

 

[47827]

Did it ever happen at Southport ?

There's quite a few lines without juice rails in the station area.

I'd doubt it would happen very often as Merseyrail and Northern tend to stick on their own sides and I think there's only one crossover you can access a non electrified platform off Merseyrail as per used on a BLS railtour 2 years I think.

 

[Vespa]

I'd doubt it would happen very often as Merseyrail and Northern tend to stick on their own sides and I think there's only one crossover you can access a non electrified platform off Merseyrail as per used on a BLS railtour 2 years I think.

That's interesting so there's only one connection between the two.

I am quite interested as there is lots of complicated trackwork in Southport.

I would imagine once a 507/8 goes off the juice, you would only have air brake reservoir to bring it to a stop, isn't there no automatic braking if it comes off power ?

 

[47827]

That's interesting so there's only one connection between the two.

I am quite interested as there is lots of complicated trackwork in Southport.

I would imagine once a 507/8 goes off the juice, you would only have air brake reservoir to bring it to a stop, isn't there no automatic braking if it comes off power ?

Don't know about the tech side of how it brakes although would expect it would be fine at the moment the event happened at least.

I'm not aware of more than one Northern platform that can be accessed off the Merseyrail route. The Bootle Brush BLS railtour in 2019 was the only time I've done that manoeuvre as far as I can recall although I've had steam wrong routed into that same platform off the Wigan line back in 2012 so it certainly wasn't a new one for a heritage loco hauled train.

 

[pdeaves]

isn't there no automatic braking if it comes off power ?

Unlikely, otherwise the train would stop every time it passed over a third rail gap, for example.

 

[DownFast]

I would imagine once a 507/8 goes off the juice, you would only have air brake reservoir to bring it to a stop, isn't there no automatic braking if it comes off power ?

The brakes are electro-pneumatic (EP) which means that the valves in the brake control unit are opened and closed in response to electrical signals from the brake controller and anything else on the brake control circuit/continuity wire (e.g passcomms). The valves have to be energised to close to shut off the air to the brake cylinders to release the brake, and de-energised to open to allow air to flow to the brake cylinders, which means that a total loss of electrical power will result in a full brake application (that's what happens when a passcomm is pulled - the brake continuity wire circuit is broken, the brake valves are de-energised, which means they all open, which means lots of air to the brake cylinders). But even if the unit loses traction current from the 3rd rail, the brake control circuits will be fed from the batteries. So as long as the batteries are feeding the brake control circuits the brakes can be released. Once the batteries run flat (or more likely a low battery voltage relay opens the battery contactors effectively cutting off battery power to the train) then the brake valves are de-energised and the brakes will apply, in the same way as when a passcomm is pulled.

 

[Bald Rick]

That's interesting so there's only one connection between the two.

I am quite interested as there is lots of complicated trackwork in Southport.

I would imagine once a 507/8 goes off the juice, you would only have air brake reservoir to bring it to a stop, isn't there no automatic braking if it comes off power ?

the only way an electric service can fall off the juice at Southport is for a service in Platform 3 to be signalled to the Wigan line. AFAIK no Merseyrail drivers sign the Wigan line, so it would need:

1) a wrong route to be offered - which given that every passenger train at platform 3 is normally routed to Birkdale, is extremely unlikely

2) the dispatcher (guard or station staff) to miss the wrong route, and give the RA to the driver

3) the driver to miss the wrong route, (one that he / she would never see in normal operation, to a line that he/she doesn’t sign) and take it

4) the driver to not realise he / she was on the wrong route, and therefore not stop, before falling off the juice.

I’d be surprised if it’s ever happened, but no doubt someone will be along to tell me I’m wrong!

 

[Ploughman]

There was a case of an Electric running off the end of the wires in York Station.
It was a special train bringing delegates to a conference in York.
The train was directed into P4 the Scarborough line.

OH yes the subject of the conference Railway Electrification and the date, The first day of the then new ECML Electrification.

 

[MadMac]

In the early days of the IC225, one got (unusually) stopped at, I think, M426 across from Motherwell Signalling Centre, and it was found that with the loco at the rear, the pan was in a neutral section. They let it roll back and got it moving again. The signal was moved shortly afterwards…..

 

[Elecman]

In the early days of the IC225, one got (unusually) stopped at, I think, M426 across from Motherwell Signalling Centre, and it was found that with the loco at the rear, the pan was in a neutral section. They let it roll back and got it moving again. The signal was moved shortly afterwards…..

I think it would be the Neutral section was moved, far cheaper and easier than moving a signal

 

[millemille]

Many years ago I was responsible for the gapping of a 16 car Networker in Hither Green Yard trying to drag a 2 car Networker - that had come back from crash repair by road and been delivered onto the pad down the bottom of the yard - back up to the juice rail.

The Hither Green Yard supervisor started the night chilled and helpful but by the end of the night he was a chain smoking wreck because we'd blocked off the whole of his yard, trapping everything in including the Orient Express stock.

It was like something out of an Ealing comedy. We tried towing the 2 car up the yard with a Ford Escort in the 4 foot, but the clutch burnt out, so we rang the yard supervisor at Grove Park and asked him to send a 4 car down to Hither Green. That came off the end of the juice rail before it even got to the 2 car. So we ring the Grove Park supervisor and ask him to send another 4 car down. The 8 car can just reach down to the 2 car and keep one set of shoes on the juice rail, but as soon as it started moving up the yard they came off the ramp.

Send another 4 car went up the cry. So now there's a 12 car, but by some strange quirk of fate all of the shoes that are on the juice rail only have a few feet of rail before they're off the ramp and the formation can't get enough momentum up to get over the gap.

A final, plaintive, call to Grove Park. Can we please have another 4 car, mister? We knew there was a real risk of a 16 car Networker drawing current at the same time tripping power supplies so we isolated a couple of traction racks and gave it one last go. Nope, wasn't having it. Just couldn't get the momentum to drag the formation over the gaps.

We had to spot hire an ED and drag the formation out, unit by unit, to clear the yard but it was too late for most of the stock we'd trapped in and you know it's bad when the national control log names you, by full name, for being responsible for all the CAPES and delay minutes.......

 

[Bald Rick]

I think it would be the Neutral section was moved, far cheaper and easier than moving a signal

back in those days, moving a signal was pretty straightforward.

 

[O L Leigh]

Many years ago I was responsible for the gapping of a 16 car Networker in Hither Green Yard trying to drag a 2 car Networker - that had come back from crash repair by road and been delivered onto the pad down the bottom of the yard - back up to the juice rail.

The Hither Green Yard supervisor started the night chilled and helpful but by the end of the night he was a chain smoking wreck because we'd blocked off the whole of his yard, trapping everything in including the Orient Express stock.

It was like something out of an Ealing comedy. We tried towing the 2 car up the yard with a Ford Escort in the 4 foot, but the clutch burnt out, so we rang the yard supervisor at Grove Park and asked him to send a 4 car down to Hither Green. That came off the end of the juice rail before it even got to the 2 car. So we ring the Grove Park supervisor and ask him to send another 4 car down. The 8 car can just reach down to the 2 car and keep one set of shoes on the juice rail, but as soon as it started moving up the yard they came off the ramp.

Send another 4 car went up the cry. So now there's a 12 car, but by some strange quirk of fate all of the shoes that are on the juice rail only have a few feet of rail before they're off the ramp and the formation can't get enough momentum up to get over the gap.

A final, plaintive, call to Grove Park. Can we please have another 4 car, mister? We knew there was a real risk of a 16 car Networker drawing current at the same time tripping power supplies so we isolated a couple of traction racks and gave it one last go. Nope, wasn't having it. Just couldn't get the momentum to drag the formation over the gaps.

We had to spot hire an ED and drag the formation out, unit by unit, to clear the yard but it was too late for most of the stock we'd trapped in and you know it's bad when the national control log names you, by full name, for being responsible for all the CAPES and delay minutes.......

That’s not unlike the story of the Cl317 that went the wrong way at Ely North and ended up off the wire. They just kept sending more and more empty units down from Cambridge CS, clipping them together and pushing them around the corner until eventually there were enough to reach the stranded unit.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Many years ago I was responsible for the gapping of a 16 car Networker in Hither Green Yard trying to drag a 2 car Networker - that had come back from crash repair by road and been delivered onto the pad down the bottom of the yard - back up to the juice rail.

The Hither Green Yard supervisor started the night chilled and helpful but by the end of the night he was a chain smoking wreck because we'd blocked off the whole of his yard, trapping everything in including the Orient Express stock.

It was like something out of an Ealing comedy. We tried towing the 2 car up the yard with a Ford Escort in the 4 foot, but the clutch burnt out, so we rang the yard supervisor at Grove Park and asked him to send a 4 car down to Hither Green. That came off the end of the juice rail before it even got to the 2 car. So we ring the Grove Park supervisor and ask him to send another 4 car down. The 8 car can just reach down to the 2 car and keep one set of shoes on the juice rail, but as soon as it started moving up the yard they came off the ramp.

Send another 4 car went up the cry. So now there's a 12 car, but by some strange quirk of fate all of the shoes that are on the juice rail only have a few feet of rail before they're off the ramp and the formation can't get enough momentum up to get over the gap.

A final, plaintive, call to Grove Park. Can we please have another 4 car, mister? We knew there was a real risk of a 16 car Networker drawing current at the same time tripping power supplies so we isolated a couple of traction racks and gave it one last go. Nope, wasn't having it. Just couldn't get the momentum to drag the formation over the gaps.

We had to spot hire an ED and drag the formation out, unit by unit, to clear the yard but it was too late for most of the stock we'd trapped in and you know it's bad when the national control log names you, by full name, for being responsible for all the CAPES and delay minutes.......

Q: How many Networkers does it take to tow another Networker to the juice rail?

A: 4, a Ford Escort and it's clutch, a phone call to International Rescue, enough cigarettes to fund the entire F1 grid for a season, and your pride.

You're right about the comedy part.

 

[MadMac]

back in those days, moving a signal was pretty straightforward.

We moved the signal. I was Tech Support at Motherwell SC at the time and they paid me to do it! It’s an ill wind that blows nobody any good!

 

[DorkingMain]

Didn't it happen to a unit being stabled in the former Royal Mail platform at Redhill, which was only electrified for part of its length?

Winchester Baltic Siding similarly is only partially electrified.