Has the Man in Seat 61 had his day?

[cjp]

If folk are interested, there are a couple of "trip reports" from my old bloke travels on Indian trains, a sort of "what not to do" guide!

https://www.indiamike.com/india/journal.php?do=showentry&e=1396&enum=1

https://www.indiamike.com/india/journal.php?do=showentry&e=1405&enum=2

Cheers,

Ed.

Thanks. I read the first and enjoyed it, but not perhaps enough to book my flight.

 

[radamfi]

He did an analysis of UK vs other European rail fares a while back. I thought it was highly misleading. It showed UK fares in a good light because he ignored Anytime tickets and the fact that off-peak singles are almost the same price as off-peak returns. He also ignored national railcards such as the Bahncard 50.

 

[takno]

He did an analysis of UK vs other European rail fares a while back. I thought it was highly misleading. It showed UK fares in a good light because he ignored Anytime tickets and the fact that off-peak singles are almost the same price as off-peak returns. He also ignored national railcards such as the Bahncard 50.

To be fair most other analyses go out of their way to do the opposite, deliberately comparing singles in spite of most journeys actually being returns and not looking at off-peak or advance fares even though the leisure traveller he primarily targets will likely be using them. I suspect that leisure travellers who do any research on fares at all in advance probably find when they visit other places in Europe that the much vaunted cheaper fares are nothing much to shout about.

 

[James James]

He did an analysis of UK vs other European rail fares a while back. I thought it was highly misleading. It showed UK fares in a good light because he ignored Anytime tickets and the fact that off-peak singles are almost the same price as off-peak returns. He also ignored national railcards such as the Bahncard 50.

Same thing for Switzerland, on his twitter he's gone as far as claiming that only citizens can get the half price card. (Hint 1: anyone can get a 30 day visitor version. Hint 2: anyone with access to a Swiss address can get the full yearly version. Hint 3: citizenship doesn't matter at all, no resident will be denied the card.) He constantly goes on about Swiss prices being terrible, ignoring that he could get the tickets for half price easily, and up to 80% discount if booked in advance (the so-called super-saver tickets).

Which makes me doubt the veracity of things for other countries.

And most of the "as cheap as" prices I've never actually seen in real life.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hint 2: you don't need a Swiss address, you can order one for collection at a Swiss ticket office, I have done this.

 

[30907]

He did an analysis of UK vs other European rail fares a while back. I thought it was highly misleading. It showed UK fares in a good light because he ignored Anytime tickets and the fact that off-peak singles are almost the same price as off-peak returns. He also ignored national railcards such as the Bahncard 50.

If we are talking about the contents of the Seat61 website, then only the last point is correct.
https://www.seat61.com/uk-europe-train-fares-comparison.html

 

[radamfi]

If we are talking about the contents of the Seat61 website, then only the last point is correct.
https://www.seat61.com/uk-europe-train-fares-comparison.html

I can't remember if it was quoted elsewhere but if not, then I guess I owe Mr Smith an apology. I do remember being rather incensed when reading it as sky-high Anytime fares and returns the same price of a single are particular bug bears of mine. It is clear that he does rather down play the silly long distance Anytime fares even though it means that a substantial proportion of the day's trains (and at the times that many people would like to travel) are unavailable to most people. It is no surprise that only 10-15% of people buy those tickets. Everyone else can't afford them!

 

[theageofthetra]

I found his site excellent for organising my trips around China a few years ago- goes into great details that others dont. That said had to block his twitter due to the offensive politics on it.

 

[theageofthetra]

Hint 2: you don't need a Swiss address, you can order one for collection at a Swiss ticket office, I have done this.

Going off topic slightly but can you give your hotel address in Switzerland and have it delivered there?

 

[Merseysider]

I’d say no, the site hasn’t had its day.

I found the site incredibly useful when I wanted details of times, connections, quality of rolling stock, how/where to buy tickets, amenities onboard, sleeper train routes, worthy stop off points etc when I was planning my rail journey from Manchester to Athens (which I completed last night, on time!)

Of course, this forum was invaluable in helping work out the finer details

But my point is that it’s an incredible consolidated resource for pretty much anything internationally rail related and no other site comes close imo.

 

[Merseysider]

Going off topic slightly but can you give your hotel address in Switzerland and have it delivered there?

I see no reason why not, in principle. I successfully collected a Bahncard that way once.

 

[Panceltic]

seat61.com is great for tips and tricks on routes.

For example, from London to Basel, the quickest routes are via Paris, and the fastest routes via Brussels use a Thalys train to Cologne, which ends up being expensive. However, seat61 has a link to a tweaked a search at www.bahn.de to add in a stop in Brussels, to ICE trains instead of the Thalys. If you book in time, these have Sparpreis tickets which are cheaper price. Flying is quicker and often cheaper, but I prefer taking the train.

I'm also going to Ljubjana in a few months for a conference. The convenient flights to Ljubjana are now really expensive. Seat61.com mentioned the route from Venice to Trieste, then with a tram and then on with another train to Ljubjana. Google Maps gets some of this route, but it doesn't pick it out, as being a nice and interesting route.

Just a note, the tram between Trieste and Opicina is currently suspended (and has been for a few years!) whilst they are doing repairs. There's a bus replacement service, of course.

Normal trains are due to start between Trieste and Ljubljana in September though. It was about time!

 

[bspahh]

Just a note, the tram between Trieste and Opicina is currently suspended (and has been for a few years!) whilst they are doing repairs. There's a bus replacement service, of course.

Normal trains are due to start between Trieste and Ljubljana in September though. It was about time!

Thanks for that. I'm going in the first week of September. http://www.sloveniatimes.com/ljubljana-and-venice-to-get-direct-rail-connection-in-september has a bit more detail, but no start date. It says that it will be run by Trenitalia but the routeplanner on their web site doesn't accept Ljubjana as a starting point yet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I use seat61 to plan my travel, particularly in the more remote countries from the UK.
It is still very useful for digging out the local options, with photos and reviews for reassurance.
However, it is for me too optimised to all-rail travel, and from London (I start from Manchester or Liverpool airports).
I don't use sleepers - there's no point in missing the scenery you've gone to see (eg through the Alps or across Transylvania).
All my recent foreign rail trips (26 countries in 6 years) start with a cheap flight to A, and back from B, with fairly complicated rail itineraries from A to B over a few days, usually involving multiple border crossings.

I start with the European Rail Timetable and seat61, then move on to the airline and national TOC web sites for booking (with bahn.com always in the mix for planning).
Dates and prices are always a compromise depending on flight and train times, and strategic hotel stops (which can be the most expensive part of the trip).
I have no use for Eurostar, RailEurope or Loco2 web sites as they don't seem to be comprehensive enough for my needs, except maybe to compare fares.
They seem to force you onto specific routes and trains, when more suitable trains are available on local web sites, often at better prices.
The last time I used a specialist rail travel agent to book rail travel (in Italy), they got the trains wrong and charged me a lot more than Trenitalia would have.

All travel advice, including that of seat61, rapidly obsoletes as new services start and old ones get withdrawn.
Some borders are also getting harder to cross from the rail point of view, even though the borders themselves are politically easier to navigate.
Seat61 does his best to keep his site information updated, but it's a huge task when railways increasingly change things at short notice.
If the site disappeared we would lose a unique resource.

 

[bspahh]

All travel advice, including that of seat61, rapidly obsoletes as new services start and old ones get withdrawn.

I use seat61 to plan my travel, particularly in the more remote countries from the UK.
However, it is for me too optimised to all-rail travel, and from London (I start from Manchester or Liverpool airports).

seat61.com doesn't mention flights, and that usually means travelling via London, unless you take a ferry.

www.skyscanner.net is pretty good for flights. For connections from airports, I find www.wikivoyage.org pretty good. www.rome2rio.com can sometimes suggest useful routes that you might not have thought of.

All travel advice, including that of seat61, rapidly obsoletes as new services start and old ones get withdrawn.

Its generally pretty accurate, at least for the common routes. When its not, the best way to get the right information from the internet is to post the wrong information.

I also like seat61.com as I went to the same school as Mark Smith ... altbough Chris Grayling was there too, so I'm not sure how that works out.

 

[Panceltic]

Thanks for that. I'm going in the first week of September. http://www.sloveniatimes.com/ljubljana-and-venice-to-get-direct-rail-connection-in-september has a bit more detail, but no start date. It says that it will be run by Trenitalia but the routeplanner on their web site doesn't accept Ljubjana as a starting point yet.

It has been advertised in Slovenia as starting in the summer (whatever that means), but it was actually on seat61.com that I found out it was being postponed until September.

All the sources talk about Ljubljana-Venice though, with a stop at Trieste Airport which is nowhere near Trieste itself. I imagine passengers will have to change trains to reach Trieste city because railway geography means the trains would have to reverse, adding about 45 minutes travel time to the overall journey.

 

[shredder1]

I keep both books handy on the bookshelf, useful for just glacing through

https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/1074631/the-man-in-seat-61-worldwide/

https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/1072165/man-in-seat-61/

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

In answer the original question, "No"! He does a great job, and loads of non specialist travellers love his site because he explains what's what. Specialist travellers often overlook just how complicated rail travel actually is....

 

[Journeyman]

Even for the UK network, if you send "normals" to look at a commercial online planner without any guidance on how to use it you are doing both them and the train network a tremendous disservice.

Absolutely. I've used the railway so much that I know exactly what I'm doing and can navigate the system in my sleep. A lot of people find it extremely confusing and intimidating.

 

[Journeyman]

You must be very lucky to be able to make consumption choices based on the political views of the organisation's leader. I wholly disagree with Brexit but it doesn't stop me going into a Wetherspoons pub!

Oh, it stops me.

 

[175mph]

It was Seat 61 that inspired me to go by rail to Luxembourg back in 2016, which was a very successful trip thanks to all the advice I followed in the Luxembourg article on the site.

Maybe I should start a Seat 62 website?

 

[MarcVD]

It's that same site that inspired me to ride trains from Belgium to Tehran, Marrakech, Beiging, Sicily, Athens, Tashkent, Zagreb,... And hopefully much more to come.

 

[gazthomas]

I am a big fan of the Man in Seat 61, though the website is somewhat dated these days. The site inspired me to travel in Germany, Spain, Italy, Japan, India and Russia by train. I have even bought a "Man in Seat 61 Worldwide" book, from the bargain bin that is "The Works". A good read for £2.99!

 

[riceuten]

As a Rampant Remoaner, I would be delighted if he used his site to promote Remain. I've seen zero evidence of it.

 

[Ianno87]

As a Rampant Remoaner, I would be delighted if he used his site to promote Remain. I've seen zero evidence of it.

He has kept the site neutral, don't think even the 'latest news' section metions anything (for the best in my view - keeps it clear and factual.). His Remaining is done via his Twitter.

 

[Wirewiper]

My concern is that, useful as it is, this resource is probably rather intimidating to newbies and there are more accessible ways of finding out how to take the train abroad. Loco2 and TheTrainLine Europe make it easy to find an itinerary that works for the prospective traveller.

However what they don't tell you is:

- what are the trains actually like?

- how far ahead can they be reserved? An enquiry too far out often returns a simple - and misleading - "there are no trains available for your date of travel". This can lead people from countries like the USA and Australia, where seemingly you have to have your name put down at birth for some trains, to believe that all trains from, say, Paris to Lyon are sold out four months ahead.

- are there different scenic routes I could take, rather than the obvious direct ones? How do I put together an itinerary for a scenic route if I need/want to book the different legs separately?

 

[hwpa46]

I have found Seat61 useful in the past, but I no longer use him since he started using his site to advertise his anti-Brexit views.

Agreed: the "bremaining" is a bore