Has the ScotRail smoking ban changed?

Status
Not open for further replies.

thenorthern

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2013
Messages
3,803
I have noticed that some signs at ScotRail stations now say that smoking is banned on any part of the station. This included the use of e-cigarettes.

Previously the rule was that smoking was only banned in covered areas such as those under a canopy.

Has the rule changed or is it still that smoking is permitted in uncovered parts of stations.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

HMS Ark Royal

Established Member
Joined
2 Sep 2015
Messages
2,811
Location
Hull
I thought the only station one could smoke on was Fishguard

Smoking not permitted anywhere else - even on open areas. Reported a smoker on the open platform area at Leeds on Saturday to station staff
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
18,452
Location
0035
I thought the only station one could smoke on was Fishguard

Smoking not permitted anywhere else - even on open areas. Reported a smoker on the open platform area at Leeds on Saturday to station staff

No. On Scotrail stations it was always acceptable to smoke except under covered areas. IanXC will probably remember when the rule changed, but it was over a year ago now.

Also non-subsurface Merseyrail stations allow smoking outside on the platform, except in shelters.
 

HMS Ark Royal

Established Member
Joined
2 Sep 2015
Messages
2,811
Location
Hull

HMS Ark Royal

Established Member
Joined
2 Sep 2015
Messages
2,811
Location
Hull
lf you read the thread it shows the exact point that l was making; that until relatively recently (i.e. within the two yrs), smoking was not permitted on Scotrail managed stations except in enclosed areas.

Ah, seems I was merely misreading it then. *scratches chin in thought* Guess thats what you get for for running round the North and then coming straight home to find a friend is sat on his roof wanting to jump off
 

Sadsmileyface

Member
Joined
20 Sep 2010
Messages
184
Location
Glasgow, Scotchland
It was changed officially on the first day of the franchise but not enforced. The purpose was to bring it in line with Network Rail managed stations as part of the ScotRail alliance.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
65,449
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The advantage of banning it throughout is that when a train pulls in people don't immediately pour out and start smoking by the doors.

I don't see the need to be quite so sanctimonious about vaping, though, it's not half as unpleasant and doesn't, so far as we know, have such significant health effects. I think it's right it is banned on board, but I would allow it in station outdoor areas.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,582
it's easier to enforce the ban if it includes e-cigarettes
 

IanXC

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
18 Dec 2009
Messages
5,904
That's my understanding too - the bylaw was amended at the franchise change date.

It's worth remembering that Scotland's general smoke free legislation came into force on 26 March 2006, where England and Wales was 01 July 2007. I guess this meant ScotRail had to take a view before the majority of the network did - and the amendment reflects bringing the SR franchise in line with almost all of the rest of the network.

ScotRail have though, said that they won't enforce the ban until the signage has all been updated. Given that the franchise change date was April 2015, I was disappointed to see this was still the case in December 2015 - even more so that ScotRail staff would blatantly ignore the rules too as late as December!
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
5,032
It's a pain and should be repealed on open platforms. The unintended result has been an increase in people chancing smoking in the train bogs instead.
 

JohnR

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
491
They still dont seem keen on enforcing it. Often see pax smoking on platforms - usually right next to the sign saying its banned!
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
12,454
Location
Another planet...
It's a pain and should be repealed on open platforms. The unintended result has been an increase in people chancing smoking in the train bogs instead.

I'd agree, but the smoking in toilets thing isn't reason enough to change the rule. I admit to regularly breaching the rule by smoking on open platforms, but not if there's another person on the same platform as I don't wish to make others feel unpleasant. Certainly the Scotrail thing seems odd, as I'd thought that the reason the rules were different was because of the sleeper.
 

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,004
The advantage of banning it throughout is that when a train pulls in people don't immediately pour out and start smoking by the doors.

I don't see the need to be quite so sanctimonious about vaping, though, it's not half as unpleasant and doesn't, so far as we know, have such significant health effects. I think it's right it is banned on board, but I would allow it in station outdoor areas.

It's the discarded cigarette butts that are the biggest problem, particularly with the vast majority of smokers using filtered cigarettes. The cellulose in the filters takes forever to degrade, and they're prone to finding their way into platform, roadside and track drainage systems, causing blockages.
 

thenorthern

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2013
Messages
3,803
I know that in England the act that banned smoking in public buildings was banned under the Health Act. 2006 but I am not sure what the bylaw is that bans it on open platforms.

I would say its a good idea to use the same rules as England for Scotland as it just brings consistency to the network. Northern Ireland railways have a smoking ban that is the same as National Rail in banning smoking on all railway premises.

Its strange though how at one point you could literally smoke almost anywhere except no smoking coaches and then the policy gradually changed to by default you couldn't smoke unless told otherwise, at one point as well you could walk round Tesco smoking. :shock:

From what I gather all local services and First group operated services had banned smoking by the time of privatization. Gradually after that smoking was banned on other services such as Virgin Trains (2001), Midland Mainline (2003), South West Trains (2004) and finally GNER & Caledonian Sleeper (both 2005). From what I gather all trains built after privatization such as the Class 170s, Voyagers and Pendolinos have always been smoke free regardless of if the operator had a smoking on some trains at the time. How so much has changed in the past 20 years.
 
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
386
You can regularly see ScotRail staff smoking next to no smoking signs on the platform at Crianlarich, whilst waiting for the Oban/Fort William services to be coupled/de-coupled. I found it mildly amusing.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
25,127
I know that in England the act that banned smoking in public buildings was banned under the Health Act. 2006 but I am not sure what the bylaw is that bans it on open platforms.

The Byelaws already stated, at section 3, (my bolding):

3. Smoking
No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

So all they had to do was put up a publicly visible notice to the effect that 'smoking is not permitted anywhere on this station'; the supporting Byelaw didn't need to be amended.
 

thenorthern

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2013
Messages
3,803
In theory I think the Caladonian Sleeper could allow smoking in the compartments as I know hotel rooms are allowed to be exempt from the smoking ban as they are someone's home for the time they in use.
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
3,099
Very few hotel smoking rooms left, though, at least in the UK.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Indeed, and most places now levy a VERY substantial (£150 is common) cleaning fee where the ban is broken...
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
24,747
Location
UK
You can regularly see ScotRail staff smoking next to no smoking signs on the platform at Crianlarich, whilst waiting for the Oban/Fort William services to be coupled/de-coupled. I found it mildly amusing.
Yeah, same with GN staff outside the entrance near platforms 9-11 in the no smoking area at King's Cross.
 

bignosemac

On Moderation
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,981
Report them to customer services.

Or just live and let live (or die from smoking related illness!)

They're in the open air. And I'm not sure there is even a 'No Smoking' sign anywhere near where the staff wait at Crianlarich.
 
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
386
Or just live and let live (or die from smoking related illness!)

They're in the open air. And I'm not sure there is even a 'No Smoking' sign anywhere near where the staff wait at Crianlarich.

Didn't cross my mind to report them. They weren't inconveniencing anyone and it's the only reasonable break in an otherwise long shift where they can have a smoke. I dare say an anti-smoking zealot has already reported them before now. I can picture the scene: 'sir, sir - please sir - I saw someone smoking and I want to tell on them'. :roll:
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
6,644
I don't smoke and have no problem with it being banned in the way it has been, however, common sense needs to prevail. Stations of a subsurface and underground nature are banned for safety reasons (and have been for many years post Kings Cross). However open stations like Crainlarich and where smokers are considerate to others is a different matter although I respect Phillip Phlopp's point about drainage and this needs to be considered.
 

thenorthern

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2013
Messages
3,803
Regarding talk of reforming the ban to allow smoking in uncovered areas of stations which some people of mentioned, I can't see it ever happening and from 2007 onwards I think that the smoking ban is only going to get stricter.

Looking at the rules in other countries in the Republic of Ireland the rules are the same but except the ban doesn't apply to open platforms, in the United States the Amtrak laws are the same as in the UK and interestingly also covers marijuana in the states where its legal. Given though most countries now have a smoking ban I don't think there are many countries left that allow smoking on trains. Eurostar banned smoking in 2001 I think.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,582
Very few hotel smoking rooms left, though, at least in the UK.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well yes. Staying in a room after someone has smoked there, evn with the bedding changed, isn't all that pleasant. Takes a lot of work to get the stink out.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
n the United States the Amtrak laws are the same as in the UK and interestingly also covers marijuana in the states where its legal.

In the US there's increasingly smoking bans in outdoor areas such as squares and small parks. It makes sense that a smoking ban covers all smoking.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top