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Hastings to London via Haywards Heath excessable?

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jacksonbang

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I recently purchased this day return but then realised that the last train from Victoria was subject to a bus replacement from Lewes. Deciding to travel back from Charing Cross I was told I had to purchase an Off Peak single by CHX ticket office.

Can anyone confirm this?

Additionally, there is a suggestion on the Southeastern website that any ticket to London Terminals can be HS1 upgraded, if i had chosen to travel back from St. Pancras, does the specific route invalidate this and where is this specified?

Thanks
 
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Bletchleyite

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Far too many ticket offices don't "get" excesses. MKC is added to the list - I bought the wrong ticket[1] recently (short of the final destination, perfectly fine for an overdistance excess, and it wouldn't have been a zero excess) and the clerk insisted on non-issue refund and reissue. I was fine with that as I didn't care how he did it, but this isn't the first time.

I do think the process needs simplifying to allow simple trading-in of one walk-up ticket against another with the £10 admin fee waived for the refund if another ticket is purchased in the same transaction. If the plan is to move to everything as singles, half-journey route excesses would no longer be needed.

[1] LM Only return to Crewe, forgetting until after the initial purchase that a version to Liverpool, where I was actually going, is available for only £2 more.
 
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jacksonbang

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It was a super off peak day return valid via Haywards Heath with the PB restriction.
 
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yorkie

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This is very simple (however some ticket office staff do not understand it).

The correct action is to charge you a change of route excess, which is priced at HALF the difference between the price you paid and the appropriate day return fare for the route you took.

The same principle does - at least in theory - apply to HS1 however in practice they will often issue a supplement instead.

By my calculations the excess is £5.50 to travel via a permitted route other than HS1 or via Haywards Heath, or £6.10 for the HS1 supplement.

(The price of a change of route excess fare is the same whether you buy it at a ticket office or on board the train, however at some stations the gatelines may not allow you to board the train without purchasing the excess first)

Write to them requesting a refund of any extra you paid.
 

paul1609

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If you have a super off peak day return ticket with restriction PB (rather than a travel card) it will be a ticket to London Victoria rather than London Terminals. Southeastern's advice is correct and no refund is due.
 
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sheff1

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If you have a super off peak day return ticket with restriction PB (rather than a travel card) it will be a ticket to London Victoria rather than London Terminals. Southeastern's advice is correct and no refund is due.

A ticket from Hastings to London via Haywards Heath should NOT be issued to Victoria. The correct ticket is one to London Terminals which is valid to
Blackfriars, Charing Cross, Cannon Street, City Thameslink, London Bridge, Victoria, Vauxhall, Waterloo East and Waterloo.

Southeastern's advice is completely incorrect.
 

bb21

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There is no Hastings - London flow priced to Victoria specifically in respect of walk-on fares so should not be issued to London Victoria.

While I cannot check documentation atm I believe the intention is that the High Speed Upgrade is only to be issued to Any Permitted/Not HS1 (delete as appropriate to specific journey) ticket holders, as the Upgrade is effectively a simplifier for an excess between these two fares, so the current ticket should be excessed to the F4-restricted NOT VALID ON HS1 Super Off-Peak Day Return (£2.75), then the High Speed Upgrade on top (£6.60, or £6.10 if you are lucky). How this was actually documented is another question.

Or as yorkie pointed out, just excess the ticket to the correct F4-restricted PLUS HIGH SPEED Super Off-Peak Day Return (£7.65 by my calculation).

Railcard fares discount accordingly.

So by my reckoning the ticket office clerk was incorrect.
 

Hadders

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I believe the intention is that the High Speed Upgrade is only to be issued to Any Permitted/Not HS1 (delete as appropriate to specific journey) ticket holders

Wouldn't an Any Permitted ticket be valid on HS1 anyway?
 

paul1609

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There is no Hastings - London flow priced to Victoria specifically in respect of walk-on fares so should not be issued to London Victoria.

While I cannot check documentation atm I believe the intention is that the High Speed Upgrade is only to be issued to Any Permitted/Not HS1 (delete as appropriate to specific journey) ticket holders, as the Upgrade is effectively a simplifier for an excess between these two fares, so the current ticket should be excessed to the F4-restricted NOT VALID ON HS1 Super Off-Peak Day Return (£2.75), then the High Speed Upgrade on top (£6.60, or £6.10 if you are lucky). How this was actually documented is another question.

Or as yorkie pointed out, just excess the ticket to the correct F4-restricted PLUS HIGH SPEED Super Off-Peak Day Return (£7.65 by my calculation).



Railcard fares discount accordingly.

So by my reckoning the ticket office clerk was incorrect.

Sorry but you are incorrect- as is the information on BR Fares. Super Off Peak fares in the ex South Central and Southeastern divisions of the ex Southern Regions have always been to specified London terminals. The only exception that Im aware of is the Uckfield line where they are indeed issued to London Terminals. This reflects the fact that they evolved from Connex Pricebuster tickets hence the restriction code PB.
Hence Southern tickets will largely be to Victoria wheres a ticket from Headcorn is to London Charing Cross some places they are to London Victoria/ Charing X.
This information is correct in National Rail Enquiries TVMs and the online retailers where you have to put in the correct London Terminus to get the lowest fare.
BR fares is also wrong as to which station a ticket will be issued to for St Pancras from Southern region stations (e.g. Brighton) where it states they are issued to London terminals but they are in fact issued to london St Pancras albeit at the same fare.
 

sheff1

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Super Off Peak fares in the ex South Central and Southeastern divisions of the ex Southern Regions have always been to specified London terminals. The only exception that Im aware of is the Uckfield line where they are indeed issued to London Terminals. This reflects the fact that they evolved from Connex Pricebuster tickets hence the restriction code PB.

Hence Southern tickets will largely be to Victoria wheres a ticket from Headcorn is to London Charing Cross some places they are to London Victoria/ Charing X.

This information is correct in National Rail Enquiries TVMs and the online retailers where you have to put in the correct London Terminus to get the lowest fare.

I have just tried 4 online retailers (including Southeastern & Southern) and all offer me the lowest fare (£18.20) from Hastings whether I put in London Terminals, London Victoria or London Blackfriars. In all cases the ticket in the basket is described as one to London Terminals.
 
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bb21

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Wouldn't an Any Permitted ticket be valid on HS1 anyway?

This goes back to the time when they were trying to separate out fares on the SouthEastern route which were permitted on HS1 and not, by newly creating the former and changing the routing description of the latter, but ended up with a botched job, so Any Permitted fares from further afield should still be permitted, but those wholly on the SouthEastern route should have been abolished, but some remained.

I don't know whether any still exist, but those are the ones I referred to (as these effectively turned into NOT HS1 fares), rather than those from further afield, which should be permitted regardless.
 

yorkie

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They shouldn't be issued to specific London termini; the station group "London Terminals" exists for good reason.

Thetrainline will correctly sell a Hastings to London Terminals "via Haywards Heath" ticket to London Bridge, changing at Clapham Jn and Waterloo/Waterloo East.

Sadly some ticket office staff (I hasten to add, absolutely not at my local station, York) behave in a manner that appears to be designed to encourage the demise of ticket offices. It's all very odd.
 

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jacksonbang

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Thanks for all the replies. I cannot believe for one moment it was correct to sell me a one way Charing Cross to Hastings ticket thus rendering the return portion of my Super Off Peak worthless.

With regards to the "Via Haywards Heath" to HS1 excess+upgrade, I was sure Southeastern's website used to say that any ticket from a Southeastern station outside the London Travelcard area could be upgraded but, on checking, it notes only a Travelcard can be - seemingly regardless of route.

By this rule a Travelcard from Hastings via HH can be upgraded but one from, say, Winchelsea cannot.
 
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