Have all the HS2 decisions not gone in Manchester Airport's favour?

[frodshamfella]

That may be, however I'm not sure about how that affects anything. More likely to affect things is the culture in the US - people drive or get taxis. You see business class passengers on public transport all over the far east.

When I go to Moscow I always take the train because it's so much faster, and then book a hotel near the station. Same with Tokyo. Singapore I take an uber though as it's air conditioned door-to-door, and there's no queue (where there is with a taxi). In the states I always take a car from the airport though, can't be faffing around taking a train to catch another train to catch a metro, which is how you get into the city from JFK or EWR.

The same would apply for manchester. If I landed at Manchester I'd be either staying in Airport City, so would take a taxi to the hotel or to the office (currently no arrivals lounges at Manchester so nowhere to have a shower/change, so likely hotel), or I'd be staying in the city centre, which would involve
1) Taxi / metro / bus to the high speed station
2) Train to Picadilly
3) Taxi / metro to the hotel

Compared with 20 minutes direct in a taxi?

For someone arriving or departing the airport by air, what is the point of a high speed station that is at best a 5 minute taxi away, with a 2tph service to Manchester? Or to London? The only thing I can see is people heading north to Lancaster and beyond.

For people in Airport City already, yes I can see a benefit of high speed trains, especially away from Manchester, but that's nothing to do with people arriving or leaving by plane.



I doubt there would ever be a dedicated first class shuttle service, there isn't from Heathrow. Even without a station at the airport though, the heavy rail could (and does) have first class. I don't believe anybody is suggesting that the metrolink Airport to City is appropriate, but metrolink from T2 to the HS station may be.

I don't see much use of a rail link for "business class passengers" (I usually fly further forward, as I'm sure you do, although will slum it in business if with the kids as the seating layout on BA is better). Recall though, whether you're in First or in business (or in that horrible place behind the curtain), you're still on public transport.

And while your point about business class passengers being is noted, I recall flying (business class) into Qatar quite recently and getting lumped onto an airport bus. In fact I think that even as a top-tier BA card holder flying in First I've had to take a bus. Some airlines do have limos for off-gate transfers (even BA do it for certain passengers), but they certainly aren't the rule, and certainly isn't the norm for the average person flying in business class.
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Imagine both stations are open. Which will attract more drivers? Airport, on the motorway, 20 minutes from a million people, or Crewe, in the middle of a town, 20 minutes from J16.
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Can you think of any ground transport at any airport where there are dedicated shuttles for business class people?

Occasionally you'll get a dedicated bus at a remote stand, especially on disembarking, and you might get a business-class only terminal, but I've never seen a first-class only ground transport (other than "It's all first class")

But then that's what chauffeurs are for.

Hasn't it been suggested that the Crewe option would be linked to the rest of rail network ? Therefore would be a much larger draw, and leave the car too.

 

[pemma]

That airport is recognised as a North American Global Gateway and as such, one must remember the differences in mileage scale of airline journeys from Canada to the other large airports in the North American continent when compared to airline journeys within the EU, let alone the even smaller mileage scale domestic airline journeys within Britain.

It's worth noting a large number of people in North America never go abroad due to their being so many different and diverse places within their own large country.

One thing that surprised me at Toronto Airport was the number of departures to London, Ontario. That's equivalent to a London (UK) to Birmingham flight in length and while I can see the plane being popular in Winter when the roads are snowed up but by the time security slows down air travel I'm surprised there are so many flights in the Spring/Summer.

I really do despair at reading postings that suggest the use of the Manchester Metrolink system as a suitable mode for business class passengers to be transported to Manchester should there be the need for this, noting the time scheduled for such a journey on account of the convoluted route taken through Wythenshawe when compared to a TPE service on heavy rail that currently makes such a journey in a fifth of the time taken by the tramway and with the advantage of seating far more suitable than the tramway. Time will tell if the airport growth will see a dedicated business class style first class only shuttle service where ticket costs will just be another part of the business expenses incurred in carrying out international trade matters.

What I was meaning is the proposed location for the HS2 station is a couple of miles from the terminals and the Airport's and TfGM's plans show a Metrolink connection between the HS2 station and the terminals and Airport city. As you say TPE serve a station which is a short walk from the terminals, so why is this HS2 station so beneficial to the Airport?

Surely for CEOs of big international companies they'll be a meet and greet service where a chauffeur will be waiting with a board with their client's name and will escort them out to a taxi/limo waiting outside for them helping them with their luggage?
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That may be, however I'm not sure about how that affects anything. More likely to affect things is the culture in the US - people drive or get taxis.

As the reference was to Toronto Airport which is in Canada (not the US*) and they can get very thick snow for lengthy periods in the Winter I would have thought the best all round option is the one which is least affected by the snow with rail easier to keep running during snow than the roads. Much of the Union to Pearson railway is elevated so presumably that helps in the Winter.

* Although I accept due to it's location it might be some US travellers use Toronto Airport over one like New York JFK due to it being nearer.

 

[miami]

One thing that surprised me at Toronto Airport was the number of departures to London, Ontario. That's equivalent to a London (UK) to Birmingham flight in length and while I can see the plane being popular in Winter when the roads are snowed up but by the time security slows down air travel I'm surprised there are so many flights in the Spring/Summer.

Connecting flights, they're far more common in the States.

I've taken many flights from Manchester to London, with a 60 minutes connection onto a long haul flight. With the right timings you can be on the long haul plane from London within 110 minutes of leaving the taxi in Manchester (leave taxi at 1030, 1100 flight to Heathrow, lands 1155, boarding can start at 12.20 for a 1300 flight). Want to fly from London Ontario to LA, you can change at Toronto and pass through pre-check there.

As you say TPE serve a station which is a short walk from the terminals, so why is this HS2 station so beneficial to the Airport?

It's not - at least until through trains on HS3 come along. It's beneficial to airport city, and to drivers.

And a walk to the TPE station from T3 is hardly a "short walk" after an overnight flight.

Surely for CEOs of big international companies they'll be a meet and greet service where a chauffeur will be waiting with a board with their client's name and will escort them out to a taxi/limo waiting outside for them helping them with their luggage?

Yes, but that would be normal for most businessmen, especially in an unusual country. A "chauffeur" is also known as a minicab.

As the reference was to Toronto Airport which is in Canada (not the US*)

Potato/Potato

 

[pemma]

And a walk to the TPE station from T3 is hardly a "short walk" after an overnight flight.

There are moving walkways.

Potato/Potato

Well you've offended the Americans and the Canadians. The former will soon be suing you, while the latter will smile politely and move on.

 

[HSTEd]

As to 400m trains, if it is really that much of an issue we could always put moving walkways down the middle of the platform islands.
Or even walkways above them that have escalators down to the platform at intervals, that doesn't massively increase the platform width.
Kind of like Eurostar had at Waterloo.
Waiting area above the platforms, perhaps with glass flooring would be kind of fun.

 

[Greybeard33]

I think a future visitor to Manchester, wanting to get from the airport to the city centre and unfamiliar with the geography, might well be tempted to get on a shuttle bus direct from Arrivals to the High Speed station, rather take the long travellator from the terminal to the classic station. It would be natural to assume that the "High Speed" line would be quicker. Also the simplicity of the HS offering could be attractive when comparing departure boards - all HS trains to Manchester departing from the same platform and running non-stop to Piccadilly. Whereas the classic trains depart from four platforms, with a bewildering variety of destinations and stopping patterns.

Similarly, returning from Piccadilly to the Airport, the "High Speed" option might seem more attractive than the adjacent classic station.

Although, by the 2030s, everyone will probably rely on a personal travel app to help choose the optimum travel mode and find the right platform/train.