Have Southerns 171s ever called at Clapham Junction?

[pompeyfan]

Just a basic quick question regarding the above, I’m aware SWTs 170s would have, but never seen or heard of Southern doing so.

 

[MatthewRead]

Just a basic quick question regarding the above, I’m aware SWTs 170s would have, but never seen or heard of Southern doing so.

I don't think they've ever been to Victoria however I did here once of one making it to Watford Junction from a former schoolmate.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Just a basic quick question regarding the above, I’m aware SWTs 170s would have, but never seen or heard of Southern doing so.

No they haven’t. When the time came to replace the DEMUs it was decided to focus all the Uckfield working at London Bridge to avoid the expense of moving the extractors at Victoria.

 

[Non Multi]

Just a basic quick question regarding the above, I’m aware SWTs 170s would have, but never seen or heard of Southern doing so.

They did run around the area briefly. There was the proposed Wandsworth Road to Ealing Broadway service using the West London Line and Poplar lines to the GW relief lines. This required a class 171, as part of the route isn't electrified. There were trial runs in 2010, but the service didn't get approval as the 171s couldn't be rescued easily IIRC. The 171s have Dellners, the GW Turbos are all 16x BSI.

 

[Murray J]

on rare occasions 171s do operate down to East Grinstead on ECS moves, like earlier this week where a 171 operated on an ECS from uckfield to east grinstead around midnight and back up to uckfield at 4-5AM due to late night engineering works blocking the line (don't ask me why they didn't just keep it at uckfield because I have no idea.) I don't think it would be wrong to say that 171s probably have operated services to victoria from east grinstead before now, presuming they're allowed to.
EDIT: i've found photos on flickr which show 171s operating the service to london bridge, which now only operates in peak times with thameslink, i'm uncertain that these services called at clapham junction but i'm pretty sure they did

 

[HamworthyGoods]

on rare occasions 171s do operate down to East Grinstead on ECS moves, like earlier this week where a 171 operated on an ECS from uckfield to east grinstead around midnight and back up to uckfield at 4-5AM due to late night engineering works blocking the line (don't ask me why they didn't just keep it at uckfield because I have no idea.) I don't think it would be wrong to say that 171s probably have operated services to victoria from east grinstead before now, presuming they're allowed to.

171s are barred from the Central side at Victoria as I mentioned above when the DEMUs were replaced it was decided to focus the diesels on London Bridge and not move the extractor fans above platforms 18 and 19 at Victoria to the new exhaust positions.

 

[Murray J]

ah ok, seeing as the london bridge service has now moved over to thameslink i'm assuming that means that 171s at clapham junction are pretty much no more.

 

[LA50041]

on rare occasions 171s do operate down to East Grinstead on ECS moves, like earlier this week where a 171 operated on an ECS from uckfield to east grinstead around midnight and back up to uckfield at 4-5AM due to late night engineering works blocking the line (don't ask me why they didn't just keep it at uckfield because I have no idea.)

Uckfield is not a permitted berthing location so not allowed

 

[LA50041]

EDIT: i've found photos on flickr which show 171s operating the service to london bridge, which now only operates in peak times with thameslink, i'm uncertain that these services called at clapham junction but i'm pretty sure they did[/QUOTE]

171’s don’t work Grinny services, only Uckfield-London Bridge via Sydennah corridor so nowhere near Clapham Junction

 

[Murray J]

EDIT: i've found photos on flickr which show 171s operating the service to london bridge, which now only operates in peak times with thameslink, i'm uncertain that these services called at clapham junction but i'm pretty sure they did

171’s don’t work Grinny services, only Uckfield-London Bridge via Sydennah corridor so nowhere near Clapham Junction[/QUOTE]
I know I live in EG lol, but if these photos are true they seemed to occasionally operate the now gone SN EG-london bridge services.

 

[JonathanH]

171’s don’t work Grinny services, only Uckfield-London Bridge via Sydennah corridor so nowhere near Clapham Junction

I know I live in EG lol, but if these photos are true they seemed to occasionally operate the now gone SN EG-london bridge services.

Not sure about them working actual London Bridge to East Grinstead services - suspect the pictures are of Uckfield services diverted to East Grinstead due to the line to Uckfield being blocked. Weren't there also some diversions during the period when platforms on the Uckfield line were being extended and off peak daytime services on the Uckfield line were replaced by buses.

 

[Murray J]

they're could have been, honestly I have no clue, but I have found news reports and press releases from summer 2015 about it, but none of the photos are from around that time, most are from 2016 but one is from 2008, all of which were taken in daylight on weekdays and mention nothing about a diversion to EG, even so if the line is closed I believe they just end the service short at oxted or hurst green.

 

[LA50041]

they're could have been, honestly I have no clue, but I have found news reports and press releases from summer 2015 about it, but none of the photos are from around that time, most are from 2016 but one is from 2008, all of which were taken in daylight on weekdays and mention nothing about a diversion to EG, even so if the line is closed I believe they just end the service short at oxted or hurst green.

grinny services are never operated by 171’s except diversion in extreme circumstances. There are occasional units using E Grinstead to berth, especially if Oxted Bay is within a possession.
Why would you waste money on fuel to run a service over a fully electrified route?

 

[Romsey]

on rare occasions 171s do operate down to East Grinstead on ECS moves, like earlier this week where a 171 operated on an ECS from uckfield to east grinstead around midnight and back up to uckfield at 4-5AM due to late night engineering works blocking the line (don't ask me why they didn't just keep it at uckfield because I have no idea.) I don't think it would be wrong to say that 171s probably have operated services to victoria from east grinstead before now, presuming they're allowed to.
EDIT: i've found photos on flickr which show 171s operating the service to london bridge, which now only operates in peak times with thameslink, i'm uncertain that these services called at clapham junction but i'm pretty sure they did

Berthing of rolling stock is not permitted at Uckfield.

 

[southern442]

EDIT: i've found photos on flickr which show 171s operating the service to london bridge, which now only operates in peak times with thameslink, i'm uncertain that these services called at clapham junction but i'm pretty sure they did

Mainline services from London Bridge don't go anywhere near Clapham Junction, only the long suburban loop up to Victoria.

 

[Deepgreen]

ah ok, seeing as the london bridge service has now moved over to thameslink i'm assuming that means that 171s at clapham junction are pretty much no more.

They're not "no more" - they never were!

 

[RichJF]

I used to commute to London Bridge & moved to Grinny in 2016.
The 171s have operated to East Grinstead in pax service but only due to weather trouble/line issues/last minute delays. The pre-Thameslink London Bridge services were operated by 377s then they moved over to the 700s as part of the timetable change in 2018.

I've been on a 377 to Grinny that pulled into pl 2 & a 171 was there on pl 1 disembarking passengers. Think it was due to issues south of Hever that it got diverted to East Grinstead & a bus replacement was laid on.

I think I've also seen stock moves of 171s via Streatham, emerging north of Selhurst & travelling that way.

 

[03_179]

The London Bridge to Selhurst ECS moves are down through Peckham Rye and Streatham during the day. They don't go through Clapham Junc.

 

[Barbarian]

Berthing of rolling stock is not permitted at Uckfield.

Not any longer, but it was for a short period when the 0530 service was introduced a number of years' ago, with crews being taxied down from Selhurst. Subsequently it was changed so the first service was stabled at OXT and ECS'd down to UCK...

 

[Johnnyp88]

Remember a Sunday quite a few years ago the first Grinny to London Bridge (diverted due to engineering works) was a 2car 171. I got on at Upper Warlingham. Standing room only. Definitely never known one in passenger service at Clapham

 

[Johnnyp88]

Remember a Sunday quite a few years ago the first Grinny to London Bridge (diverted due to engineering works) was a 2car 171. I got on at Upper Warlingham. Standing room only. Definitely never known one in passenger service at Clapham

 

[brad465]

Berthing of rolling stock is not permitted at Uckfield.

Not any longer, but it was for a short period when the 0530 service was introduced a number of years' ago, with crews being taxied down from Selhurst. Subsequently it was changed so the first service was stabled at OXT and ECS'd down to UCK...

Is this because if something was berthed there it would in effect be blocking the whole line from Uckfield to Crowborough?

 

[NWD_MT97]

Is this because if something was berthed there it would in effect be blocking the whole line from Uckfield to Crowborough?

Yes but services could still be routed into Crowborough from the London end and reverse move back towards Eridge while a train is country side of Greenhurst Junction. In theory a train could run up to OD67 signal protecting Greenhurst Junction. However, it could not go any further unless authorised to pass the signal at danger onto the single line.

When the Uckfield berthing train was introduced, the main concern from drivers side and the company seemed to focus on security, so a security guard was hired to stay with the train all night!!! However, the company was actually informed that the sectional appendix actually prohibited breathing of trains at Uckfield but the company either thought that was incorrect information or didn't bother making the correct checks? However, they were not solely at fault because the pathway must have been agreed by Network rail as well???
From memory, the train was Berthed for no more than a few nights before they realised they shouldn't be berthing trains at Uckfield. I believe it was Network rail who requested the company to berth the 23.07 down from London Bridge at Uckfield so they could take earlier blocks on the East Grinstead Line?? It probably seemed a good idea especially on paper? Fortunately we don't run trains on paper and common sense prevailed.
The bottom line is that there needs to be permissive working in place on a running line to allow berthing. There is no permissive working in place on the Uckfield line.

 

[NWD_MT97]

Special permission has been given by Network Rail to berth at Uckfield this weekend so that an Uckfield to Ashurst shuttle service can run while the embankment between Edenbridge tunnel and Edenbridge Town is worked on. Hopefully the train will be graffiti free and in one piece after being left all night at Uckfield!!!