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Have TfL been told to accept e-tickets?

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alistairlees

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Well I just did a check and one still can't get an eTicket from Effingham Junction to Sutton. That route doesn't pass through any TfL owned stations and surely Sutton can't be so busy that using eTicket would slow things down too much.
Sutton (London) is a GTR-operated station. Not all GTR-operated stations are equipped with barcode readers at gatelines. I'm assuming Sutton (London) has gatelines, and that it is one of those so equipped. Perhaps that will change.

To take an example or two, Effingham Junction to Guildford does have eTicket set as an option, at least for an Anytime Day Single SDS fare with route "Any Permitted"; I haven't checked other ticket types on this flow, but it's likely to be the same.

Similarly, Arundel to London Terminals (using a Super Off-Peak Day Single PDS, route "Not Gatwick Express") is also fulfilled to eTicket - this journey could pass through Sutton (London) (though break of journey is not permitted). An SDS for the same journey, though with route "Any Permitted", cannot be fulfilled to eTicket though. I am not sure why!
 
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mattdickinson

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Improved tech would speed them up. For instance scanners which (a) had you hold your barcode screen-upwards rather than screen-downwards, and (b) used camera rather than laser-scanner tech so you could see on a small screen that you'd aligned it properly.

With phones, another option would be to develop a means of using NFC to reference an e-ticket rather than just a barcode, that would be quicker. Like with most things you don't have to speed everyone up, just most people. Most people are now using barcoded tickets on phones, not paper.

Actually, might that be a short term solution to e-tickets on TfL - NFC on a phone only, no paper? Could the Oyster pads get a software mod to read that? It's already used effectively for contactless from phones...

ITSO on Mobile is the standard. It's already available on Midland Metro.
 

plugwash

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Pretty sure single use RFID tickets are used by at least one metro system (think it's the glasgow subway but i'm not sure) in the UK.

The question is how to issue them. I guess maybe you could have a machine at the interchange stations where you presented your barcode rail ticket and it spat out a RFID for the london underground.
 

paul1609

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As I understand it Southern will only accept e tickets to stations where the barriers have barcode readers or there are no barriers. The only Southern stations I have seen with barcode readers are Victoria Gatwick Airport and on 4 barriers at Brighton. Southern website will sell me an e ticket from home Appledore (no barriers) to Portsmouth (swt barriers with barcode) but not to London terminals (set barriers no barcode) or any of the Southern West Coastway stations ( barriers no barcode).
 

alistairlees

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As I understand it Southern will only accept e tickets to stations where the barriers have barcode readers or there are no barriers. The only Southern stations I have seen with barcode readers are Victoria Gatwick Airport and on 4 barriers at Brighton. Southern website will sell me an e ticket from home Appledore (no barriers) to Portsmouth (swt barriers with barcode) but not to London terminals (set barriers no barcode) or any of the Southern West Coastway stations ( barriers no barcode).
That's correct as it stands. The largest GTR stations are fitted with barcode readers on the barrier lines; the small and medium GTR stations that have barriers don't (yet) have barcode readers; and at the smaller stations without barriers it doesn't matter. Londdon Bridge also has barcode readers by the way; but I can't remember where else does for certain.
 

MikeWh

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eTickets aren't that much slower if at all than paper tickets just TfL much prefer the speed of Oyster which doesn't depend on the user not to hold it too far away or to turn their brightness up.
TfL need the throughput of people through their gatelines to be as fast as possible. The barcode may be read as fast as an Oyster card once it is presented to the reader in an appropriate manner, but if it takes a while for the correct position to be found then it is no good. The key metric is the time it takes each person to get through the gate after arriving at it.
 

Starmill

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TfL need the throughput of people through their gatelines to be as fast as possible. The barcode may be read as fast as an Oyster card once it is presented to the reader in an appropriate manner, but if it takes a while for the correct position to be found then it is no good. The key metric is the time it takes each person to get through the gate after arriving at it.
Precisely. And for the people who are presenting a 2D code on a flimsy piece of paper, all bets are off. That can easily be ages faffing, even up to 5 seconds.
 

infobleep

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Sutton (London) is a GTR-operated station. Not all GTR-operated stations are equipped with barcode readers at gatelines. I'm assuming Sutton (London) has gatelines, and that it is one of those so equipped. Perhaps that will change.

To take an example or two, Effingham Junction to Guildford does have eTicket set as an option, at least for an Anytime Day Single SDS fare with route "Any Permitted"; I haven't checked other ticket types on this flow, but it's likely to be the same.

Similarly, Arundel to London Terminals (using a Super Off-Peak Day Single PDS, route "Not Gatwick Express") is also fulfilled to eTicket - this journey could pass through Sutton (London) (though break of journey is not permitted). An SDS for the same journey, though with route "Any Permitted", cannot be fulfilled to eTicket though. I am not sure why!
Well if they want people to move to eTickets then they need to provide the technology. I do appricate things cannot always happen overnight.

I have used eTickets for longer journeys but for shorter ones I've had to rely on paper tickets because I never seem to be making a journey where eTicketing is avilable. To be fair there maybe times where I did for local journeys but the ticket vending machine was free and so easy to use, I just used that. I'm thinking Guildford to Reading here but this would be autmun 2019.
 

infobleep

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As I understand it Southern will only accept e tickets to stations where the barriers have barcode readers or there are no barriers. The only Southern stations I have seen with barcode readers are Victoria Gatwick Airport and on 4 barriers at Brighton. Southern website will sell me an e ticket from home Appledore (no barriers) to Portsmouth (swt barriers with barcode) but not to London terminals (set barriers no barcode) or any of the Southern West Coastway stations ( barriers no barcode).
So would one be able to buy an eTicket from Gatwick Airport to West Sutton? West Sutton having no barriers.

To my surprise one can. Same for Effingham Junction to West Sutton and that is the same price as to Sutton. £5.80

I assume breaking one's journey at Sutton would be lawful as its an any permitted ticket and break of journey is not restricted in the ticket conditions, as far as I'm aware.
 

MikeWh

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I assume breaking one's journey at Sutton would be lawful as its an any permitted ticket and break of journey is not restricted in the ticket conditions, as far as I'm aware.
Sutton might be ok from Gatwick, but not from Effingham Junction.

Edit: forgot West Sutton is on a different line to Effingham Junction.
 
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plugwash

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I assume breaking one's journey at Sutton would be lawful as its an any permitted ticket and break of journey is not restricted in the ticket conditions, as far as I'm aware.
In my experience breaking journeys usually requires being manually let through the barrier anyway.
 

paul1609

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Similarly, Arundel to London Terminals (using a Super Off-Peak Day Single PDS, route "Not Gatwick Express") is also fulfilled to eTicket - this journey could pass through Sutton (London) (though break of journey is not permitted). An SDS for the same journey, though with route "Any Permitted", cannot be fulfilled to eTicket though. I am not sure why!
Its some years since I travelled from Arundel but it used to be the case that the Super Off Peak tickets were issued to London Victoria wheras Off Peak Tickets were issued to London Terminals.
This came about as the super off peak ticket was a successor to the Connex Pricebuster. As Connex set the main fares for the route to London Terminals they couldnt introduce a Connex only fare so introduced a cheaper fare to Victoria.
Victoria has barcode readers on the barriers but not all the London Terminal Stations do. Charing Cross, Waterloo East, Canon street to my knowledge dont.
The information in BR Fares for London terminals from the south is based on Industry Data which isnt correct I am informed. For example It says I can buy a super off peak ticket from Headcorn to St Pancras (not HS1) but that is in fact a ticket to London terminals which will be rejected by the barriers at St Pancras LL and the staff at St P will try to excess you. The same ticket will be retailed by the TVM at Headcorn. To really confuse the matter a +HS1 ticket is obviously valid at St Pancras HS.
Id imagine the Arundel issue is the same data issue.
 

Paul Kelly

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I find it curious all the talk about issue of e-tickets being conditional on the ticket gates at either end of the journey being equipped with barcode readers, because for years CrossCountry were happily issuing m-tickets between stations with such non-equipped ticket gates, causing plenty of work for other TOCs' staff in letting their passengers through the gates manually.

I haven't seen it discussed anywhere but it seems that at some point it was decided to start blocking issue of barcoded tickets where the stations at either end weren't equipped? Does anybody know any more details?
 

Haywain

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The information in BR Fares for London terminals from the south is based on Industry Data which isnt correct I am informed. For example It says I can buy a super off peak ticket from Headcorn to St Pancras (not HS1) but that is in fact a ticket to London terminals
BR Fares makes it clear that the ticket you refer to would be issued to London Terminals (by use of the words "Ticket issued to: LONDON TERMINALS "). Nothing misleading at all but, regardless of that, BR Fares is not an official source and should not be relied on for information about validity of any ticket.
 

paul1609

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BR Fares makes it clear that the ticket you refer to would be issued to London Terminals (by use of the words "Ticket issued to: LONDON TERMINALS "). Nothing misleading at all but, regardless of that, BR Fares is not an official source and should not be relied on for information about validity of any ticket.
Sorry but when any site that returns a fare when you specify the destination, that is not valid to that destination, it is misleading whether its an official site or otherwise. Its obviously an industry data problem since the Set tvms do the same thing and its an issue that the industry has been aware of for many years.
 

Wallsendmag

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I find it curious all the talk about issue of e-tickets being conditional on the ticket gates at either end of the journey being equipped with barcode readers, because for years CrossCountry were happily issuing m-tickets between stations with such non-equipped ticket gates, causing plenty of work for other TOCs' staff in letting their passengers through the gates manually.

I haven't seen it discussed anywhere but it seems that at some point it was decided to start blocking issue of barcoded tickets where the stations at either end weren't equipped? Does anybody know any more details?
Certainly not the view this month
 

MikeWh

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Why is one OK and not the other? Is it because they are separate TOCs?
Because I'm an idiot! They're both ok - I'd thought West Sutton is between Sutton and Effingham Junction.
 
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