Have the goal posts moved a lot?

[BestWestern]

Thank you for posting this equally balanced comment. Its clear you have a wealth of experience both driving buses and trains and are therefore able to give an insiders view.

Not driving trains, just riding in the back cab But of course us Guards can still pick up on the obvious!

 

[Steve1966]

Can I stick in my two pennies worth about this lorry and train argument?
I have driven HGV Class One vehicles since the ripe age of 21.
It is something that I have always wanted to do and it was an ambition since I can remember.
I also had the ambition to drive a tube train and I achieved that for a spell as well. I can't speak for mainline in my experience of railways but I have got an idea of what it's like.
But from what I do know, driving a lorry and driving a train are miles apart and cannot be compared.
I know from years of experience that driving a lorry is HARD.
Things you have to contend with are dozy motorists, pillocks who pull out on front of you, pedestrians who think they are God, roadworks, abuse from motorists for keeping to 40 mph on a single carriageway, police, ministry, irate customers, keeping a 44 tonne wagon rolling in heavily congested roads and cities. And don't even start me off on cyclists! This list is just for starters.

Driving a tube train had its own pitfuls and stresses.
You had to know the line inside out. Where every signal was and what move could be made at them.
Depot roads and procedures.
Irate passengers and p~~s artists. Taking a train out of service because they have puked or slashed all over the place.
In my experience of tube driving it was the must mind numbingly boring job I have ever had.
The concentration and skills needed were immense. I have a lot of respect for the guys and girls who are still there doing it.

So my point is that they are both incredibly hard jobs and careers.
The only way to compare them is that you are locked up on your own for hours on end.
MAC, you do make some points but the two jobs cannot be compared.
They are both hard and the people doing them deserve some slack and a little respect.
Stay safe everyone.

 

[notadriver]

How long were you a tube driver ? Which line?

 

[Beveridges]

Can mainline driving get as boring as tube though? can anyone say who's done both. I may have to reconsider what career direction to take

 

[Toots]

Mick,you can't base your career decisions on someone else's view of what is boring,you have to follow your own path...incidentally are you at Blackpool Shed now?......

 

[Steve1966]

Like I say Beveridges, I can't speak for mainline.
But I just assume up and down the same stretch hour after hour, day after day, it could get boring like the tube. Please don't let my opinion put you off of applying for anything. It's just my opinion.

Notadriver, I was a Train Operator for 3 years on the Jubilee Line on the 1996 stock. It's all ATO on that line now.

 

[Beveridges]

Yes Blackpool sidings
Many mainline jobs have more route variation than just going up and down the same stretch of track every day but dont know if that will be enough.
Certainly MDD Shunting isnt too boring (definetely not as boring as driving on the motorway for example) but then that could be just because its constantly on and off different units & other duties are thrown in which add some variety. Thats not to say shunting does not have its downsides - there are some

 

[Steve1966]

Beveridges, please don't let what I say put you off of applying for anything.
Like I say, I can't speak for mainline but if it's anything like the tube, up and down on the same piece of track day in day out, year after year, I could imagine it to get boring, perhaps not to the extent of the tube.
But that's my opinion.

Notadriver, I was based at Wembley Park on the Jubilee Line for 3 years. It's changed a lot since I was there. The line is now ATO.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry for the second response Beveridges and Notadriver.
I didn't think the first one got posted.

 

[LCC106]

A friend was driving instructor on London Underground donkeys' years ago and now works for Virgin as Mentor Driver up North. Never asked which he prefers. Personally, although I'm not a train driver (yet...), I do drive preserved vehicles on a track and rarely get bored. Each trip is different based on weather, track condition, other movements on the line and so on. I can imagine train driving would be the same - even if you only have a couple of routes on your card?

 

[notadriver]

I think it's boring on the tube possibly because you're stuck in a tunnel most of the time.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think it's boring on the tube possibly because you're stuck in a tunnel most of the time.

Depends what line you're on and what depot you're based at.

Metropolitan or District Line drivers spend a lot of time in the open!

 

[elementalpat]

OK guys.

I am really kind peed off now. Rejected for the trainee train driver role, probably cos of location.

Now they turn my down for a conductor role without even seeing my face! Come on!! I am not playing up the role of my education here, but I went to uni and got 4 years of decent work experience under my belt too! (Teaching English abroad = quite a few skills there!)

To turn me down without seeing me just sounds totally ludicrous!! If anyone can help me out and find out Southern Railway HR number (can't find it on the website) that would be helpful, because I really want to give someone a right talking to!

 

[90019]

Now they turn my down for a conductor role without even seeing my face! Come on!! I am not playing up the role of my education here, but I went to uni and got 4 years of decent work experience under my belt too! (Teaching English abroad = quite a few skills there!)

Do you expect them to interview every single person who applies to every job?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

because I really want to give someone a right talking to!

Probably not the best way to go about getting a job.

 

[elementalpat]

Do you expect them to interview every single person who applies to every job?

Well, no obviously! However, my skills and experiences should put me above any average Tom, Dick or Harry, right? After all, there a no real special pre-requisites to be a Conductor!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Probably not the best way to go about getting a job.

You sound like you are on a wage already. I have been applying for jobs that do not require uni education (which I have and don't think it's worth it now!) and still get to see any management team!!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

How do you think your skills, degree and work experience are suited to the job of a train driver?

 

[Zoe]

Now they turn my down for a conductor role without even seeing my face! Come on!! I am not playing up the role of my education here, but I went to uni and got 4 years of decent work experience under my belt too! (Teaching English abroad = quite a few skills there!)

Did you have any experience of working in a safety critical environment though or dealing with an emergency situation?

 

[Greenback]

Well, no obviously! However, my skills and experiences should put me above any average Tom, Dick or Harry, right? After all, there a no real special pre-requisites to be a Conductor!

If you really believe that, it may be part of the reason why you are not successful. I don;t mean to sound harsh, but just about any role you could think of, on and off the railway, requires a particular skill set, abilities, or personality trait.

If you don;t know what they are for a given position, it's unlikely your application will be attractive enough to warrant a great deal of consideration by the recruiter.

You may be able to do a job, but you also have to be able to demonstrate that you can do it, and do it well enough to rise above the other candidates.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How do you think your skills, degree and work experience are suited to the job of a train driver?

Exactly. An applicant has to show how they meet or match up with the requirements of the position.

 

[elementalpat]

How do you think your skills, degree and work experience are suited to the job of a train driver?

Forget about the train driver.... It's the rejection for the Conductor role that feels rotten.

 

[Zoe]

An applicant has to show how they meet or match up with the requirements of the position.

Indeed, these days you are expected to demonstrate the various competencies they want by using real life examples.

 

[elementalpat]

Indeed, these days you are expected to demonstrate the various competencies they want by using real life examples.

Done all that in the form. If you want a template of the personal statement, I can forward it to you to peruse.

 

[Greenback]

Indeed, these days you are expected to demonstrate the various competencies they want by using real life examples.

That's right. I found this very starnge when I left University and re-entered the job market over a decade ago! It took me a while to work out what employers wanted...

 

[Zoe]

Done all that in the form.

At the end of the day though it may just be that they didn't think that your examples were the best. I know of a case where someone used what they thought were good examples (in this case at an interview) but the interviewer didn't like one of them. When the candidate offered a better example, the interviewer refused to allow them to change and they didn't get the job.

 

[90019]

However, my skills and experiences should put me above any average Tom, Dick or Harry, right?

Perhaps they do, but an attitude like that will put you below them.

 

[elementalpat]

I will find out tomorrow!

But I need Southern railway's HR number which doesn't exist on the website. Anyone with inside info?

 

[142094]

OK guys.

I am really kind peed off now. Rejected for the trainee train driver role, probably cos of location.

Now they turn my down for a conductor role without even seeing my face! Come on!! I am not playing up the role of my education here, but I went to uni and got 4 years of decent work experience under my belt too! (Teaching English abroad = quite a few skills there!)

To turn me down without seeing me just sounds totally ludicrous!! If anyone can help me out and find out Southern Railway HR number (can't find it on the website) that would be helpful, because I really want to give someone a right talking to!

I'm going to be quite frank with you as you seem to have elevated yourself to a high position and IMO you need to come down a notch or two. I know a lot of people who have gone to university and I know a lot of them have struggled to get jobs. Going to university does not make you 'special'. It is what you have taken away from your course and how you have applied yourself that will make you stand out from a crowd.

Second, 4 years work experience as an English teacher will count for something but not much. In this day and age you need work experience in either the industry you are going to work for or one that is similar. Teaching English will not prepare you for well for some jobs on the railways and that is a fact.

Hopefully you'll realise that there are other people who are more qualified for the job and that is why you didn't get an interview. If you don't, I hope no one gives you the HR number for Southern as the staff working there certainly do not need to put up with your attitude.

 

[elementalpat]

Second, 4 years work experience as an English teacher will count for something but not much. In this day and age you need work experience in either the industry you are going to work for or one that is similar. Teaching English will not prepare you for well for some jobs on the railways and that is a fact.

So no one in the railway industry cares about transferable skills?

By the way, enough cheap digs about me guys ok? You are all happy in all your roles (I'm sure you worked hard to get em) and I want to happily emplyed as well, but I just feel I am not given a fair chance by the various recruitment people.

When you are always failing even when you tryinmg your hardest, who doesn't feel frustrated?

 

[142094]

When you are always failing even when you tryinmg your hardest, who doesn't feel frustrated?

Yes of course, but you need to realise that there are a lot of people in the same boat as you. I recently applied for a job with a Water Company collecting sea water samples. This job only needed the most basic of qualifications and a driving licence, and I had a degree in a subject relevant to the job. Out of 1500 applications I got through to the interview but only two were taken on and I wasn't. Tough luck but it happens.

Another thing is that you are now competing against people who:

a) Have worked in the railways but may have been made redundant, and are applying again.

b) Other graduates who may not have got a job in an industry where they previously would have

c) Postgraduates who normally would have got a job after doing a BSc/BA but due to a lack of jobs have gone on to do postgraduate degrees as a result.

Best advice is to either keep applying, look for work experience in a related field, or consider doing further studies to boost your CV.

 

[90019]

You are all happy in all your roles (I'm sure you worked hard to get em) and I want to happily emplyed as well, but I just feel I am not given a fair chance by the various recruitment people.

I'm currently unemployed.

I've been applying for loads of jobs, and been rejected for almost all of them.
Since May, I've only been invited for one interview, which is tomorrow, and that's it.

When you are always failing even when you tryinmg your hardest, who doesn't feel frustrated?

Of course it's frustrating, but you need to take it less personally.

 

[AlterEgo]

So no one in the railway industry cares about transferable skills?

What transferable skills do you actually have that the railway will be interested in?

In all fairness, your degree means almost nothing to the railway when applying to be a conductor or driver. I do what I would consider in many respects to be a degree-level job, and I don't have a degree (half of my colleagues don't, either). I do have a number of transferable skills that are relevant to my role though. I worked hard to get those, just like you, except I didn't pay to get them.

I am not a conductor or a driver; I work in an office. But I would never consider someone from another grade 'beneath' me. Sorry to be blunt but that is how you come across - that you're more galled about being pushed back for Conductor because it's 'not as good' as being a Driver.

There are loads of people out there with degrees that they will struggle to turn into real value. When other people were at University I was working for a small business and eventually ended up practically running almost half of it. That's three years of transferable skills employers are going to be interested in. And I also didn't end up in debt, so I have a nice clean payslip every four weeks as I'm not getting any Student Loan deducted.

That approach won't work for everyone, because some people are more suited with academia - good luck to you, and to other people who follow that path. I'm not trying to knock the University path whatsoever - but be realistic. Having a degree in History or whatever else it's in won't put you to the front of the queue above people who have more 'life experience' and interpersonal skills, particularly when you're applying for a job that doesn't actually require a degree!

All train drivers do is pull levers. It must be easy. Signaller job is harder.

Obvious troll is obvious.

I've been applying for loads of jobs, and been rejected for almost all of them. Since May, I've only been invited for one interview, which is tomorrow, and that's it.

Good luck!