Have TPE finally given up on the Scarborough service

[tpjm]

No doubt you will receive the admin PM telling you not to use railway acronyms! In ghe menatime may I just add WTF as some fo those you've used need that

Can you not just be grateful for the information I’ve shared? Standard three letter station codes are not “railway acronyms” and can be easily determined as explained by @sjpowermac

 

[sjpowermac]

A 1Zxx will be a passenger train so presumably they found crew at Scarborough. If it was ECS it would be 5Zxx as I think was the previous inbound train.

The Nova 3 training set based at Scarborough, 68030 plus TP12, ran as follows yesterday:
5B83 10:16 Scarborough to York (11:08)
1Z84 11:09 York to Scarborough (11:55)
1Z85 12:00 Scarborough to York (12:55)
1Z86 13:02 York to Scarborough (13:49)

5B83 listed as ‘empty coaching stock’ on RTT
1Z84/85/86 listed as ‘express passenger’ on RTT and shown as service trains on TPE Journey Check.

The post below seems to question this, I assume from observation of 1Z84, hence my reply that if they know better then I’m happy to be corrected.

The Nova set wasn't carrying passengers when it went through to Scarborough to return as 1Z85 - conductor not trained, so were these passenger trains.....?

 

[headshot119]

A 1Zxx will be a passenger train so presumably they found crew at Scarborough. If it was ECS it would be 5Zxx as I think was the previous inbound train.

If it's a particularly busy time during disruption, an alteration might not be entered into TRUST to turn the 1ZXX into a 5ZXX, so it may not have been carrying passengers.

 

[tpjm]

1Z85 exists in the Control Log as part of the performance report as it had a late start at SCA. The paths are bid as 5Zxx for training so TRUST would more likely be showing it as a 5xxx not a 1xxx if it hadn't been updated.

 

[headshot119]

1Z85 exists in the Control Log as part of the performance report as it had a late start at SCA. The paths are bid as 5Zxx for training so TRUST would more likely be showing it as a 5xxx not a 1xxx if it hadn't been updated.

My point was more around if paths had been entered for an adhoc passenger "1ZXX" but then a guard couldn't be sourced, so it still ran as a "1ZXX" despite not having passengers. It's not an at all uncommon occurrence.

 

[PennineSuperb]

My point was more around if paths had been entered for an adhoc passenger "1ZXX" but then a guard couldn't be sourced, so it still ran as a "1ZXX" despite not having passengers. It's not an at all uncommon occurrence.

These 3 services did run in passenger service, with a guard. 5B83 should have run in passenger service, but despite best efforts Network Rail declined the request due to lack of platform availability at York because of an ongoing incident with the OLE North of York.

 

[2L70]

Should have known better not to expect a TPE service to run at the weekend..

 

[tpjm]

Should have known better not to expect a TPE service to run at the weekend..

Do Northern never have faults on their trains?

Luckily for you, there’s another train along in 11 minutes.

 

[Darandio]

Do Northern never have faults on their trains?

And the relevance of Northern in relation to the increasingly abysmal TPE service is?

 

[northernchris]

Do Northern never have faults on their trains?

Luckily for you, there’s another train along in 11 minutes.

I don't see the relevance of Northern in a TPE thread? I was in Manchester today and TPE were struggling to run their timetable - plenty of cancellations, the majority of which were down to lack of crew. The manual announcements were stating lack of available Transpennine traincrew, which would suggest TPE don't have enough available staff on duty tonight rather than being caught up in disruption

 

[mike57]

Just got back from Manchester, 25 mins late into Seamer and next one cancelled. A miserable journey, late leaving Manchester after the inevitable platform change, and later still into York, with a few minutes
recovered on the journey to Scarborough. Absolutely rammed from York, no working toilets. This is no way to run a railway. New trains have been coming for over 12 months, but TPE seem unable to plan their introduction without decimating the timetable

This is unacceptable, but TPE seem to get away with it every time, it's a shame they dont get the negative press that Northern get, as if anything I would say their performance is worse at than Northern.

 

[Killingworth]

This is unacceptable, but TPE seem to get away with it every time, it's a shame they dont get the negative press that Northern get, as if anything I would say their performance is worse at than Northern.

3 out of 4 Manchester - Sheffield services cancelled this evening. The EMR trains will be rammed, not helped by 2 Northern services also cancelled.

Multiple reasons for all this mayhem, but passengers just know they can't get where they want when they want. Encouraging more to use rail only makes the congestion worse, yet an amazing number keep travelling.

No likely relief before new stock is all in place, teething issues resolved and crews all fully trained - about May! Apparently nationalised Network Rail is responsible for 60% of delays so we shouldn't expect too much.

 

[tpjm]

And the relevance of Northern in relation to the increasingly abysmal TPE service is?

I don't see the relevance of Northern in a TPE thread?

I don't see the relevance of a cancelled TPE service to Hull in a Scarborough thread!

I was making a point regarding @2L70's continual TPE bashing where no further details or points for discussion are made.

 

[sjpowermac]

Let’s hope the alterations quoted for the new timetable make things a bit more robust. Certainly the alterations to the timetable look very sensible.

From my own observations at York, very often a TPE train bound for Liverpool will arrive in platform 4 from Scarborough on time (or early), only to leave late due to a Cross-Country train arriving late into platform 3 and ‘trapping’ the TPE service. The new timetable seems to avoid that.

 

[sjpowermac]

1Z85 exists in the Control Log as part of the performance report as it had a late start at SCA. The paths are bid as 5Zxx for training so TRUST would more likely be showing it as a 5xxx not a 1xxx if it hadn't been updated.

These 3 services did run in passenger service, with a guard. 5B83 should have run in passenger service, but despite best efforts Network Rail declined the request due to lack of platform availability at York because of an ongoing incident with the OLE North of York.

I was pretty certain that 1Z84/85/86 ran as passenger services. @fireftrm seemed to contradicted this, so thank you both for clarifying that all three trains were passenger services.

I think in the old days the term for those trains would have been ‘control relief’, well done to all involved

 

[xc170]

Given the position TPE are currently in, trying to introduce 3 different types of new stock at the same time, although not acceptable, the current disruption is, in a way, understandable.

Anyway, I'll be in Scarborough tomorrow, (Mon 9th) is the 18:42 Scarborough to York service likely to run or is this one of the services prone to disruption?

 

[Ben Bow]

I don't see the relevance of a cancelled TPE service to Hull in a Scarborough thread!

I was making a point regarding @2L70's continual TPE bashing where no further details or points for discussion are made.

Just been reading a story on the BBC website about alleged doping in Russian sport, they said for Russia

"the traditional techniques - deny, accuse, bluster - are all in play."

For some reason TPE popped into my mind.......

 

[2L70]

Do Northern never have faults on their trains?

Luckily for you, there’s another train along in 11 minutes.

Luckily Northern accepted my TPE only ticket... good reason they are £5 cheaper... they don’t run!

And the relevance of Northern in relation to the increasingly abysmal TPE service is?

Deflect and Deny as it’s known as in political circles.

Just got back from Manchester, 25 mins late into Seamer and next one cancelled. A miserable journey, late leaving Manchester after the inevitable platform change, and later still into York, with a few minutes
recovered on the journey to Scarborough. Absolutely rammed from York, no working toilets. This is no way to run a railway. New trains have been coming for over 12 months, but TPE seem unable to plan their introduction without decimating the timetable

This is unacceptable, but TPE seem to get away with it every time, it's a shame they dont get the negative press that Northern get, as if anything I would say their performance is worse at than Northern.

Spin Doctors, PR men, company friendly journos from certain magazines.

I don't see the relevance of a cancelled TPE service to Hull in a Scarborough thread!

I was making a point regarding @2L70's continual TPE bashing where no further details or points for discussion are made.

Continual bashing?

Credit where it’s due as further up the thread, criticism likewise.

 

[scarby]

Given the position TPE are currently in, trying to introduce 3 different types of new stock at the same time, although not acceptable, the current disruption is, in a way, understandable.

Anyway, I'll be in Scarborough tomorrow, (Mon 9th) is the 18:42 Scarborough to York service likely to run or is this one of the services prone to disruption?

Last week it was cancelled on Monday, Friday and Saturday.

Therein lies one of the biggest issues. If they’d introduced an emergency timetable, say even a 2 hourly shuttle using a new train or 6-car 185, and said “So sorry, but these trains will run” I would have much less of a beef. As it is, it’s impossible to plan to travel as any service may run, or may not run. They’ve just ploughed on as if everything was normal though they can’t run the advertised service.

 

[xc170]

Last week it was cancelled on Monday, Friday and Saturday.

Therein lies one of the biggest issues. If they’d introduced an emergency timetable, say even a 2 hourly shuttle using a new train or 6-car 185, and said “So sorry, but these trains will run” I would have much less of a beef. As it is, it’s impossible to plan to travel as any service may run, or may not run. They’ve just ploughed on as if everything was normal though they can’t run the advertised service.

Fantastic, I can't rely on that, I'll travel back via Bridlington and Sheffield, the 18:42 connects nicely with my XC service form York but if it may be cancelled then I can't risk it.

 

[daikilo]

Given the position TPE are currently in, trying to introduce 3 different types of new stock at the same time, although not acceptable, the current disruption is, in a way, understandable.

No it is not, it is the consequence of inadequate risk management. They selected the new trains and their being late and with faults was had a probability which has gradually become reality. If their risk management is actually profit-efficient then the franchise wording is inadequate.

 

[fireftrm]

Can you not just be grateful for the information I’ve shared? Standard three letter station codes are not “railway acronyms” and can be easily determined as explained by @sjpowermac

Oh I was delighted with the information, once I had worked it out, but using them is against forum rules and requires us to have to look them up, rather then be able to read you post without doing so. I received a 'bollocking' admin message for referring to a newspaper article without also including a web link to it, depsite saying which paper so I was noting that you should be receiving a similar message!

 

[fireftrm]

I was pretty certain that 1Z84/85/86 ran as passenger services. @fireftrm seemed to contradicted this, so thank you both for clarifying that all three trains were passenger services.

I think in the old days the term for those trains would have been ‘control relief’, well done to all involved

The previous 1Z service to Scarborough did run throuigh Malton around 1030, but no passengers as 'the conductor isn't trained', that they then ran the others as additional serices isn't really 'well done to all' as I assume these were training runs they decided to open for customers, the reason I don't think it was well done is that the timetabled services were being cancelled around these, the 11:07 Malton to York was cancelled and the next service full and standing on arrival at Malton, the additonal service appears to have run 20-30 minutes behind it and the same basic time before the next timetabled departure - so the customers suffered a 3 car set after 2 hours, a 5 car then ran at a time no one would be there for and it was followed by another 3 car set at the timetabled time. How is this 'well done'? Adds insult to the injury of a desperately appalling service

 

[fireftrm]

GRF Garforth
SYB Stalybridge
CRG Cross Gates

Standard ‘three letter station codes’, full list here:
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/48541.aspx

HTH

Thank you and I know where to find them but would prefer not to have to - Google helps anyway - but the point is that the forum rules include:
Please remember many members do not understand rail “jargon” (including acronyms, station codes and specialist terms). Such terms should be correctly defined the first time they are used; codes and abbreviations must not be made up.

 

[sjpowermac]

The previous 1Z service to Scarborough did run throuigh Malton around 1030, but no passengers as 'the conductor isn't trained', that they then ran the others as additional serices isn't really 'well done to all' as I assume these were training runs they decided to open for customers, the reason I don't think it was well done is that the timetabled services were being cancelled around these, the 11:07 Malton to York was cancelled and the next service full and standing on arrival at Malton, the additonal service appears to have run 20-30 minutes behind it and the same basic time before the next timetabled departure - so the customers suffered a 3 car set after 2 hours, a 5 car then ran at a time no one would be there for and it was followed by another 3 car set at the timetabled time. How is this 'well done'? Adds insult to the injury of a desperately appalling service

The service you refer to at 10:30 is mentioned in the post I’ve quoted below, so I’m not sure why you are still complaining about it.

Regarding the trains that did run as passenger services, would you prefer that those didn’t run? It seems to me that on the day someone took some initiative to keep the service going, so yes, ‘well done’, but feel free to disagree.

There have been a lot of problems with the Scarborough service due to shortages of train crew. As I understand it, the problems on Friday were due to a body being found on the track at Eccles and signalling problems at Malton. If you know better then perhaps you could say?And why complain to me, I don’t work for TPE or Network Rail.

These 3 services did run in passenger service, with a guard. 5B83 should have run in passenger service, but despite best efforts Network Rail declined the request due to lack of platform availability at York because of an ongoing incident with the OLE North of York.

 

[sjpowermac]

Thank you and I know where to find them but would prefer not to have to - Google helps anyway - but the point is that the forum rules include:
Please remember many members do not understand rail “jargon” (including acronyms, station codes and specialist terms). Such terms should be correctly defined the first time they are used; codes and abbreviations must not be made up.

I was only trying to be helpful, but it seems I shouldn’t have bothered!

 

[scarby]

Just got back from Manchester, 25 mins late into Seamer and next one cancelled. A miserable journey, late leaving Manchester after the inevitable platform change, and later still into York, with a few minutes
recovered on the journey to Scarborough. Absolutely rammed from York, no working toilets. This is no way to run a railway. New trains have been coming for over 12 months, but TPE seem unable to plan their introduction without decimating the timetable

This is unacceptable, but TPE seem to get away with it every time, it's a shame they dont get the negative press that Northern get, as if anything I would say their performance is worse at than Northern.

Not sure which one you were on but the 17.40 arrival into Scarborough was cancelled and the 18.43 arrived at 18.59.

The 17.40 would be an optimum choice if, say, out for a day in York shopping. If living in Scarborough one should then be home at 18.00, allowing one to spend the whole evening at leisure. Arriving at 18.59 would mean not getting back until 19.20, significantly eating into one’s time.

Delay Repay or promises of a better service in the future can’t claim that time back. 10 or 15 minutes here and there can be tolerated but being 79 minutes late simply isn’t good enough.

 

[fireftrm]

The service you refer to at 10:30 is mentioned in the post I’ve quoted below, so I’m not sure why you are still complaining about it.

Regarding the trains that did run as passenger services, would you prefer that those didn’t run? It seems to me that on the day someone took some initiative to keep the service going, so yes, ‘well done’, but feel free to disagree.

There have been a lot of problems with the Scarborough service due to shortages of train crew. As I understand it, the problems on Friday were due to a body being found on the track at Eccles and signalling problems at Malton. If you know better then perhaps you could say?And why complain to me, I don’t work for TPE or Network Rail.

I wasn't complaining to you, or about that service. I was making a point that this was not 'well done' TPE and using station codes isn't that helpful except to railway staff, many on here aren't and that's why the forum has its rules - I know I broke one by not linking to a newspaper's website when quoting a headline I'd seen in paper left on a table in a Malton pub. I have abolutely no complaints about the Malton To Scarborough service stopping at Malton and not in public use, as I didn't want it and never go that way so wouldn't care less if they never ran, I only care about Malton to York . There had been an earlier suicide west of Manchester which would have caused sets and crews to be out of turn, but there were no apparent problems with the signalling at Malton - seems to be a regular excuse for TPE to cancel trains. Only last week the OHLE north of York was blamed for cancelling a Scarborough line train at York - problem on the line just outside York so we cannot proceed being the on-train announcement as we approached York......

 

[sjpowermac]

I wasn't complaining to you, or about that service. I was making a point that this was not 'well done' TPE and using station codes isn't that helpful except to railway staff, many on here aren't and that's why the forum has its rules - I know I broke one by not linking to a newspaper's website when quoting a headline I'd seen in paper left on a table in a Malton pub. I have abolutely no complaints about the Malton To Scarborough service stopping at Malton and not in public use, as I didn't want it and never go that way so wouldn't care less if they never ran, I only care about Malton to York . There had been an earlier suicide west of Manchester which would have caused sets and crews to be out of turn, but there were no apparent problems with the signalling at Malton - seems to be a regular excuse for TPE to cancel trains. Only last week the OHLE north of York was blamed for cancelling a Scarborough line train at York - problem on the line just outside York so we cannot proceed being the on-train announcement as we approached York......

Well I think that staff using their initiative to actually try and keep the service running is worthy of saying ‘well done’ and you disagree, I think that discussion ends there.

Regarding forum rules, I think ‘family friendly’ also applies and the well known abbreviation that you used at the end of your initial post certainly breaks that rule. If you were particularly concerned about the post @tpjm made then you could have alerted a moderator.

 

[fireftrm]

Well I think that staff using their initiative to actually try and keep the service running is worthy of saying ‘well done’ and you disagree, I think that discussion ends there.

Regarding forum rules, I think ‘family friendly’ also applies and the well known abbreviation that you used at the end of your initial post certainly breaks that rule. If you were particularly concerned about the post @tpjm made then you could have alerted a moderator.

WTF is an acronym and I used that particular one to point out that not everyone understands railway jargon, be they station codes, or acronyms. You didn't see the humour in that point as WTF stands for, as you will find if you search, Wednesday! Thursday! Friday!
On the service running we will have to disagree, I do acceot that running training turns as passenger services is a good idea, but not when unadvertised and so at times passengers won't be there. Example - Malton, service xx.07 showing cancelled, next service xx+1:07 passengers don't hang around on the platform and return for around xx+1:00, 1Z service passes through 30 minutes earlier.......I'm sure Scarborough station passengers would be as likely to go and have a wander as they expect it to be an hour before their next train. To further support this view there are plenty of signs telling us how much they apologise for the poor service and they have arrangements in place to get buses, when these don't run either why would you be waiting for a (if we knew really helpful) service? PS not an additional service but a service as there are so many being cancelled addtional would be more than normal.
I've no more to say