Have TPE finally given up on the Scarborough service

[mike57]

TPE have quite rightly taken a lot of criticism over their performance on the Scarborough service.

Today has probably been the worst day ever for TPE performance. Out of 18 TPE arrivals into Scarborough during the day so far 6 have been cancelled.

This afternoon 12:44, 13:44, 14:44 and 16:44 departures to Liverpool have been cancelled, and there will be more as the incoming workings are already cancelled.

They all appear to be due to crewing issues according to RTT. We were in Scarborough just after lunch traveling in and out by Northern from home, and passengers for the 12:44 were very unhappy, eventually buses were arranged for 13:44, but that is going to mean a two hour late arrival into York, maybe more, as the A64 is also shut this weekend, and then no doubt further delays for those with onward journeys.

This level of performance is unacceptable, you cannot plan a journey based on 33% cancellations, and performance during the week has been bad with 2 or more cancellations on a lot of days, and late running on a significant number of other services

Perhaps with the looming general election its time to stir our local MP's up again, I know the Scarborough MP got involved last year, and the practice of curtailing services at Malton stopped shortly after.

 

[sjpowermac]

Add the 20:44 and 22:46 off Scarborough to the list, those are cancelled also. Not good.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Perhaps with the looming general election its time to stir our local MP's up again, I know the Scarborough MP got involved last year, and the practice of curtailing services at Malton stopped shortly after.

The real way to "stir up" your local MPs is to vote them out and replace them with candidates who actually want to give railways a higher priority. But what are the chances of that actually happening...?

 

[NoMorePacers]

Of course. TPE are bloody awful.

 

[mlambeuk]

I've rarely seen a Scarborough (even Middlesbrough) TPE service run on time in the past year. Yet the media say naff all about it.They seem to slag off Northern all the time.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Also a few TPE cancellations today on the Manchester to Scotland (and vice versa) services. The odd one was replaced by a replacement bus service. Goodness knows how long it would take taken. One bus/coach ran from Preston to Edinburgh. I think another ran from Glasgow to Preston.

 

[2L70]

Scarborough would have gone into Northern Connect(whenever that happens)but for the local MPs intervention. I suppose he wanted to keep the first class seating...

It’s become such a joke that the staff expect it.

As @mike57 said today i travelled to Edinburgh and noticed all the TPE cancellations on the boards at York. But don’t worry, the spin doctor will be along soon with the big book of excuses.

 

[a_c_skinner]

It is time that franchise terms made cancellations more costly to the TOC so that somewhat better contingency arrangements are put in place. At present the commercially better thing is to run the risk of cancellation than to plan for a somewhat more robust system. We will always risk cancellations but the pendulum has swung too far to tolerating cancellation.

 

[dk1]

With the amount of training being undertaken on three new train fleets isn't it inevitable there will be crewing problems? Add to that a weekend leading up to Christmas when even less will be interested in working any overtime or doing anything additional overtime & you will end up with issues like those seen yesterday.

Hopefully as it settles down, improvements will be seen into the new year.

 

[2L70]

With the amount of training being undertaken on three new train fleets isn't it inevitable there will be crewing problems?

Poor planning on the Company’s part? They could do training in a period where there is less on leave days/weeks but in a typical TPE face saving exercise they’re getting it done now when the trains are getting busier in the run up to Xmas.

 

[dk1]

Poor planning on the Company’s part? They could do training in a period where there is less on leave days/weeks but in a typical TPE face saving exercise they’re getting it done now when the trains are getting busier in the run up to Xmas.

Is there ever any less on leave? The training has to be done.

 

[2L70]

Is there ever any less on leave? The training has to be done.

January, February, October generally quiet months...

 

[dk1]

January, February, October generally quiet months...

So you would want to delay all training until then? Traincrew holiday roster blocks run throughout the year. It's only odd leave days and they are quota controlled usually. It's never a good time for this sort of thing but the amount is quite unprecedented. Best to press on and get it done.

 

[Spartacus]

Whoever runs it, it’s still a timetable built like a house of cards, with the only way to keep things even close to booked time is to muck passengers about at the extremities and non-key stations. But Newcastle insists it needs direct trains to Liverpool AND Manchester airport, so I can’t see things changing all that quickly.

 

[gazzaa2]

Whoever runs it, it’s still a timetable built like a house of cards, with the only way to keep things even close to booked time is to muck passengers about at the extremities and non-key stations. But Newcastle insists it needs direct trains to Liverpool AND Manchester airport, so I can’t see things changing all that quickly.

The Liverpool-Newcastle service has a huge demand. You've got Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-York-Durham-Newcastle (Darlington also a key rail hub). These are all huge cities and/or tourist destinations covering one train service and the Airport services covers all but Liverpool.

The Newcastle to Manchester/Liverpool line is probably the busiest in the north in terms of demand and even the new Nova's only really touch the sides in terms of servicing that.

TPE hasn't been a pleasant journey for a long time. Consistently overcrowded trains, more cancellations than ever, always delays. Trans Pennine is a difficult route crying out for new capacity even beyond a few more carriages.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Sounds to me given the posts on here that we're heading down the GWR direction of staff shortages etc because of training on the new trains mostly.

 

[dk1]

Sounds to me given the posts on here that we're heading down the GWR direction of staff shortages etc because of training on the new trains mostly.

I think we are already there

 

[Ben Bow]

I posted this in another (probably wrong) thread which is relevant here:

"..... In reflection of the fact that there was a large training programme required, and, once in service, spare cover would need to rise significantly since there will be traction specific links without the ability to cross cover, a large number of drivers have been recruited.. too late, despite knowing about the requirements for years. So, many of the drivers who should be covering for training, are still, in fact, in training themselves. Yes, there are external factors which have affected TPE, but many of the issues which TPE face are down to poor/invisible leadership at the very top of the company and constant changes of direction..."

 

[blackfive460]

This afternoon 12:44, 13:44, 14:44 and 16:44 departures to Liverpool have been cancelled, and there will be more as the incoming workings are already cancelled.

You can add the 20:44 and 22:46 to the list of cancellations yesterday.

It's a shame that Northern are unable to start their service between York and Scarborough with the December timetable change although, if what is being reported in the press; that it will be an extension of the current Blackpool - York service, then I have doubts that will prove any more reliable than TPE.

Maybe the best solution would be an express bus service between Scarborough and York!

 

[Spartacus]

The Liverpool-Newcastle service has a huge demand. You've got Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-York-Durham-Newcastle (Darlington also a key rail hub). These are all huge cities and/or tourist destinations covering one train service and the Airport services covers all but Liverpool.

The Newcastle to Manchester/Liverpool line is probably the busiest in the north in terms of demand and even the new Nova's only really touch the sides in terms of servicing that.

TPE hasn't been a pleasant journey for a long time. Consistently overcrowded trains, more cancellations than ever, always delays. Trans Pennine is a difficult route crying out for new capacity even beyond a few more carriages.

I don't doubt that the Liverpool - Newcastle Route has a high demand, but that extra service to the airport is taking up white space that simply isn't worth it when it's causing other services to have fail to stops elsewhere, and others to be turned back short especially when they're only 15 minutes apart. I doubt anyone who has their train cancelled with their next one in an hour would think people having to change trains on the same platform at Huddersfield to have a service to or from the airport is a price too big to pay to make their service run reliably.

 

[2L70]

There’s one TPE T/C diagram - mentioned it in conversation with @Bletchleyite i remember - which is an obvious performance risk and and often results in a cancellation at its end - but when it’s challenged you get “but it’s legal” back in parrot fashion from the management side.

 

[bobbyrail]

Perhaps with the looming general election its time to stir our local MP's up again, I know the Scarborough MP got involved last year, and the practice of curtailing services at Malton stopped shortly after.

Trouble with MP's waving their middle finger at TOC's to show their constituents how good a job they do for them is the MP's general inability to understand how things work in an industry they don't know. By curtailing a service at Malton it may allow TPE to run the next service on time.

An example of this is from a few months ago a Scarborough - Liverpool service was running 50L at Manchester all the PAX got kicked off at Victoria and told to board the next service in 10 minutes time, the late train then went ECS to Eccles sidings/old platform it sat their for about 20 minutes then returned to Victoria as the planned return service on time. Yes Passengers from Liverpool would have been late but they would have been late by about the same time due to the late arrival of the inbound anyway. Result was service recovered for the rest of the day.

 

[DerekC]

Trouble with MP's waving their middle finger at TOC's to show their constituents how good a job they do for them is the MP's general inability to understand how things work in an industry they don't know. By curtailing a service at Malton it may allow TPE to run the next service on time.

An example of this is from a few months ago a Scarborough - Liverpool service was running 50L at Manchester all the PAX got kicked off at Victoria and told to board the next service in 10 minutes time, the late train then went ECS to Eccles sidings/old platform it sat their for about 20 minutes then returned to Victoria as the planned return service on time. Yes Passengers from Liverpool would have been late but they would have been late by about the same time due to the late arrival of the inbound anyway. Result was service recovered for the rest of the day.

As a thing you do occasionally to recover it's fine - it's when it gets repetitive that it rightly gets bad press because passengers to the end of the route have no service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There’s one TPE T/C diagram - mentioned it in conversation with @Bletchleyite i remember - which is an obvious performance risk and and often results in a cancellation at its end - but when it’s challenged you get “but it’s legal” back in parrot fashion from the management side.

Sorry, what does "T/C" mean? I must be being thick!

 

[2L70]

Train Crew

 

[Darandio]

As a thing you do occasionally to recover it's fine - it's when it gets repetitive that it rightly gets bad press because passengers to the end of the route have no service.

Well quite.

I'm not sure it needed explaining on here again why they terminate trains short, it's bloody obvious. But this isn't just an occasional occurrence. It not uncommon on the Middlesbrough route as well, I was talking to a taxi driver last week who was coming back from holiday and got kicked off at Northallerton. No replacement transport and just told to wait an hour for the next one without any guarantee it wouldn't terminate short either. Welcome home!

Then the Redcar service starts soon, i'm not that confident any of the services will ever get here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Train Crew

Yes, I'm being thick then!

 

[Class 170101]

January, February, October generally quiet months...

So you would want to delay all training until then? Traincrew holiday roster blocks run throughout the year. It's only odd leave days and they are quota controlled usually. It's never a good time for this sort of thing but the amount is quite unprecedented. Best to press on and get it done.

More chance of overtime being taken up than declined by drivers at those times of year I suppose.

 

[High Dyke]

I got caught up in the cancellations yesterday...an hour later arriving into Scarborough, and the service bus onto Whitby for the football. All in vain though as their "award-winning pitch" was waterlogged...again!

More fun this morning as one between Huddersfield and Scarborough cancelled due to broken down train, therefore no back working from Scarborough.

 

[nr758123]

As a thing you do occasionally to recover it's fine - it's when it gets repetitive that it rightly gets bad press because passengers to the end of the route have no service.

And not just Scarborough at the end of a service. Mossley is another on TPEs list of places that don’t matter.