Have XC increased prices recently?

[BigVince76]

Hi. For the past 3 years XC have had pretty cheap 1st advance tickets from Stoke to various stations in Devon, costing around £30 each way. These were pretty easy to get with a bit of planning and flexibility. I last brought one to Tiverton in July. However, looking for the next few months the cheapest now seems to be £72! That is a HUGE increase, what gives? This seems to be the cheapest fare for the next 3 months. Have they really put the price up well over double?

 

[All Line Rover]

There is a £46 First Advance fare from Stoke - £30 ish with a Railcard. I have bought it a few times to stations in the SW, but I don't know if that tier is currently available. I think not.

 

[BigVince76]

First class, thanks for the info. I realise that advance tickets are not always available for all trains but the fair I am talking about was usually available on some trains, but now seems to have disappeared I am not sure what prices you are quoting but the XC website has the cheapest as £73.

I know I am not going mad and am not making this up! I can't find any of my old tickets at the moment to scan but here is a copy from the XC my bookings page with the details of the last such ticket I brought in August. This one was to Newton Abbot and I used a disabled railcard.

First advance single £21.80

1 Adult(s) Disabled Adult Railcard Fare @ £21.80

This ticket is only valid on CrossCountry services.
Non-refundable ticket, only valid for the date, time and trains specified.

DISABLED ADULT RAILCARD : You must carry your railcard with you when you travel. Failure to do so will result in the full undiscounted fare being payable.

This would make the un-discounted ticket about £33. An increase from £33 to £73 in two months seems like a mistake, can anyone shed any light on it?

 

[First class]

So you have a railcard, ok.

I can only think XC had an offer on, (eg 25% off Advance tickets or along them lines) which they occasionally do.

The cheapest First Single with railcard is £54.80

Looking at it, it seems your very cheap fare is some sort of mistake!

 

[bnm]

The only fares Advance 1st Fares are:

Tier 1 = £79.00
Tier 2 = £83.00
Tier 3 = £118.00
Tier 4 = £131.00

Doesn't look like there was ever a £30 1st Class Advance fare!

Where are you getting those fares from? The Manual (NFM10 Sep 2011-Jan 2012) lists the following 1st Class Advance Purchase fares for Stoke-on-Trent - Tiverton Parkway:

MDF XV S 43.00
MCF XV S 50.50
MBF XV S 73.00
MAF XV S 94.00
MGF XV S 129.50
MFF XV S 143.50

And going back to NFM09 (May 2011 - Sep 2011):

MEF XV S 33.00
MDF XV S 38.50
MCF XV S 45.00
MBF XV S 65.00
MAF XV S 86.50
MGF XV S 129.50
MFF XV S 143.50

From that I see that the lowest tier 1st Advance (MEF £33.00) has been removed, and some of the others have seen prices changes, the cheaper two tiers increasing in price, the next two decreasing and the final two unchanged. So, in July there was a 1st Advance priced at £33.00, or £21.80 with a railcard.

Bear in mind though, that these are just the different tiers, we have no way of knowing the allocation of these fares at each price point. Train operators can do as they please with Advance Purchase fares to manage demand and maximise revenue. It appears that the OP is now a victim of this 'yield management'. As the OP has discovered it does appear that current availability up to the booking horizon is predominately at the £73.00 price point (£72 if purchased via crosscountrytrains.co.uk).

All you can do to increase your chances of bagging the cheapest fares is to book as far ahead as possible and look to travel at days and times where demand is lowest.

 

[John @ home]

Hi BigVince76,

I think you're right! CrossCountry prices have increased a great deal in the last few years, both for Advance and on-the-day tickets. Their First Class tickets have increased even more that their Standard tickets.

CrossCountry were the first train company to set a fare at over £1,000 for a return ticket. They were the first to charge more than twice the Standard fare for First Class. At the time of privatisation, First Class on-the-day fares on their routes were 1.5 times the equivalent Standard fare. Today, their usual First Class multiplier is 2.2 times.

Cross-Country is an expensive train company. I tend to avoid their trains unless I'm travelling on a journey where the fare is set by someone else, for example York - Leeds is set by TransPennine (TPE) and Leeds - Derby is set by East Midlands Trains.

Regarding your specific point on long-distance First Class Advance fares to the South-West, it's important to note that CrossCountry have no obligation to have any of these tickets at all. Some rail fares are regulated. Others, including all Advance tickets and all First Class fares, are not. The train company may choose whether to offer them, and what price to charge.

For the Stoke-on-Trent - Tiverton journey you mention, the regulated fare is the Standard Off-Peak Return. This has increased from £79.70 in 2008 to £89.90 in 2011, a rise of 12.8%

But increases in First Class Advance tickets for the same journey have been much greater. In 2008, CrossCountry had seven levels of First Class Advance fares Stoke-on-Trent - Tiverton: £25.50, £30, £34.50, £50.50, £66.50, £99.50 and £111. In 2011, they have six levels at £43, £50.50, £73, £94, £129.50 and £143.50. This suggests increases in the range 29% to 111%

The Voyager trains which CrossCountry operate on this route have only 26 First Class seats. As long as they achieve acceptable occupation levels, I see little prospect of prices becoming more competitive.

For family visits between Yorkshire and South Wales, where six of us used to travel by CrossCountry First Class Advance tickets in 2008, we now use TPE and Arriva Trains Wales. It's Standard only from Manchester, but the trains are roomier with more luggage space, friendly trolley service throughout and the toilets don't smell so bad.

 

[All Line Rover]

I too have seen Advance Fares rise significantly in recent years. As recently as a year ago there used to be some bargain First Advance fares available to the South West - on a number of trains too - but these have sadly disappeared.

I wouldn't say First Class is packed on all trains - there is plenty of spare capacity available. One train I travelled on (at a reasonable time of day) had no more than 2 people on it all the way from Plymouth to Stoke! Providing a train doesn't pass through Bristol>Birmingham>Manchester (and vice versa) between 07:00am and 10:00am, and 16:30pm and 18:30pm, you can almost guarantee that First Class will be quiet throughout the journey.

I don't like CrossCountry (as many on this forum are aware ) - their Fares Manager being on particular individual who I don't like! I don't understand where he/she gets their information from in deciding what quotas to release on each train.

 

[tony_mac]

They have obviously taken the decision to not release 'cheap' 1st Advance fares to protect the revenue from the Anytime tickets.

In particular, I have seen late trains on Fridays with completely empty first-class carriages, yet they don't release any cheap tickets for these.

 

[BigVince76]

Thank you bnm for getting to the bottom of it for me. So they have removed the MEF £33 ticket I have been buying then to make matter worse they do not seem to have released any MDF or MCF tickets. I cannot find anything less than the £73 MBF ticket for the next 3 months. Yes I know all about quotas yada yada but until this change in September you could find the cheaper tickets. You had to be flexible and know the likely trains but it was possible. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.

 

[Greenback]

I think you're right! CrossCountry prices have increased a great deal in the last few years, both for Advance and on-the-day tickets. Their First Class tickets have increased even more that their Standard tickets.

Fortunately, there are usually alternatives available so that people with a little knowledge can avoid these fares!

Cross-Country is an expensive train company. I tend to avoid their trains unless I'm travelling on a journey where the fare is set by someone else, for example York - Leeds is set by TransPennine (TPE) and Leeds - Derby is set by East Midlands Trains.

I also avoid them unless I can split my tickets. For me, though, it's usually easier just to go via an alternative route. Even travelling via London can be quite abit cheaper.

R

egarding your specific point on long-distance First Class Advance fares to the South-West, it's important to note that CrossCountry have no obligation to have any of these tickets at all. Some rail fares are regulated. Others, including all Advance tickets and all First Class fares, are not. The train company may choose whether to offer them, and what price to charge.

This rather undermines the argument put forward by ATOC that Advance fares are bargains that mean that the cost of rail travel cna be cheaper than it has ever been.

That may be true for many routes, but we may see the cheapest tickets disappear like on the low cost airlines!

But increases in First Class Advance tickets for the same journey have been much greater. In 2008, CrossCountry had seven levels of First Class Advance fares Stoke-on-Trent - Tiverton: £25.50, £30, £34.50, £50.50, £66.50, £99.50 and £111. In 2011, they have six levels at £43, £50.50, £73, £94, £129.50 and £143.50. This suggests increases in the range 29% to 111%

I would be very surprised if revenue has risen by the same amounts.

For family visits between Yorkshire and South Wales, where six of us used to travel by CrossCountry First Class Advance tickets in 2008, we now use TPE and Arriva Trains Wales. It's Standard only from Manchester, but the trains are roomier with more luggage space, friendly trolley service throughout and the toilets don't smell so bad.

That is exactly what we do when travelling between South Wales and the north. It is a far more comfortable, and cheaper experience than Cross Country.

07:00am and 10:00am, and 16:30pm and 18:30pm

Sorry to be a pedant, but you are mixing up the 12 hour and 24 hour clock! It can't be 16:30pm, it's either 1630 or 4:30pm!

I don't like CrossCountry (as many on this forum are aware ) - their Fares Manager being on particular individual who I don't like! I don't understand where he/she gets their information from in deciding what quotas to release on each train.

Whoever it is that sets the fares in the first place, presumably?

Whoever it is, they seem unable to grasp that increases of the like we have seen in FC, and the introduction of restrictions designed to increase revenue do not work! They simply drive people away from the railway altogether, or force people to split tickets (less revenue share for XC) or travel by alternative routes and services (no revenue share for XC!)

 

[sheff1]

I think you're right! CrossCountry prices have increased a great deal in the last few years, both for Advance and on-the-day tickets. Their First Class tickets have increased even more that their Standard tickets.

Indeed. One thing to bear in mind, though, is that their trains still seemed to be packed on the core Leeds - Birmingham section for most of the day. So lots of people are content to pay (or they are all on split tickets )

For these reasons I also do this..

... between Yorkshire and South Wales, ... we now use TPE and Arriva Trains Wales. It's Standard only from Manchester, but the trains are roomier with more luggage space, friendly trolley service throughout and the toilets don't smell so bad.

When travelling Yorkshire to the South West I always travel via London.

 

[bnm]

Thank you bnm for getting to the bottom of it for me. So they have removed the MEF £33 ticket I have been buying then to make matter worse they do not seem to have released any MDF or MCF tickets. I cannot find anything less than the £73 MBF ticket for the next 3 months.

There are currently a few journeys at the MCF (£50.50) price point available for Saturdays and Sundays up to the booking horizon. That seems to be the best price over the next 3 months.

Sorry to say it's going to be a case of pay more or back to cattle class!

 

[BigVince76]

Sorry to say it's going to be a case of pay more or back to cattle class!

Well on this occasion the solution was to use VT and FGW via London, £30 cheaper than XC and still in 1st! It does not add as much time as I thought it would to the journey so this may well be how I do things in future unless XC start releasing the cheaper tickets again.

 

[bnm]

Well on this occasion the solution was to use VT and FGW via London, £30 cheaper than XC and still in 1st! It does not add as much time as I thought it would to the journey so this may well be how I do things in future unless XC start releasing the cheaper tickets again.

And this comment (and others regarding XC's fare policy) is something that CrossCountry ought to take serious note of.