Have you had valid Delay Repay claims rejected?

[yorkie]

If anyone has experience of having valid Delay Repay claims rejected, it would be interested to hear from you. In particular, I am curious to learn how frequently this has happened to you, and whether or not appealing has been successful.

I am also keen to hear examples of the automated systems (I believe this may be called Journeycall DelayCheck?) used by some train companies e.g. Northern Rail.

I understand companies like Northern use a system which ignores the contracted itinerary, and instead compares the latest version of the timetable, so the customer's train(s) may not be shown as ever having booked to run, or shown as booked to run at different times to the contracted time.

Furthermore, I understand it takes the default position that a customer is able to obtain the fastest alternative itinerary, which would require them to travel on invalid tickets when ticket acceptance may not be in place e.g. using a Northern Only ticket on TPE, and also assumes that customers are able to predict when trains may be overtaken or depart first, when this information may not be known at the time of the disruption.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

If anyone has experience of having valid Delay Repay claims rejected, it would be interested to hear from you. In particular, I am curious to learn how frequently this has happened to you, and whether or not appealing has been successful.

I am also keen to hear examples of the automated systems (I believe this may be called Journeycall DelayCheck?) used by some train companies e.g. Northern Rail.

I understand companies like Northern use a system which ignores the contracted itinerary, and instead compares the latest version of the timetable, so the customer's train(s) may not be shown as ever having booked to run, or shown as booked to run at different times to the contracted time.

Furthermore, I understand it takes the default position that a customer is able to obtain the fastest alternative itinerary, which would require them to travel on invalid tickets when ticket acceptance may not be in place e.g. using a Northern Only ticket on TPE, and also assumes that customers are able to predict when trains may be overtaken or depart first, when this information may not be known at the time of the disruption.

Certain Abellio TOCs appear to make use of a similar sort of system, where it attempts to work out whether the claim is clearly correct using an automated system.

I have had numerous delay compensation claims rejected, but for almost all I have eventually been able to appeal successfully. Most of the problems, if at all, have been caused by TOCs claiming I can't claim compensation for combinations of tickets. In all fairness, most TOCs tend to pay out, but then perhaps I'm not always undertaking 'unusual' journeys!

 

[_toommm_]

With my most recent claim to Northern, I was travelling Denby Dale to Strines with split tickets, split at Sheffield, so it's obvious what route I took. The Strines train was cancelled, leaving me delayed over an hour, yet Northern claimed I travelled via Huddersfield. You cant make it up...

Transpennine do tend to decline a lot of delay repays in my experience too. Even when presenting the route you took in a tabular format, they claim I took a massively more circuitous route with another TOC. It then takes ages to appeal, then they say they can't pay me via BACS, and decide to send a cheque out which never materialises.

Attached below is the TPE Delay Repay dashboard, showing roughly 50% of my claims being declined in the first stage, with them stating I've either not travelled with them, or the delay was under 30 minutes, both of which are false.

I've recently started to abandon the dashboard pretty much and started to email in my claims, with RTT links to make it even clearer what I attempted to do and what I actually did.

 

[kristiang85]

With SWR I've had a few rejections, but always got it on appeal. Usually it would be along the lines of "You did not get the next fastest train to your destination", but when I explained that I was already sat on a delayed train, or the next train was overcrowded to get on, etc. I've always been successful. But it is a pain to have to do that in the first place.

 

[Hadders]

Fair play to GTR, I’ve not had anything rejected by them even at the height of the shambles - and there were many, many claims.

Northern, on the other hand. I am in dispute with them over a claim from Euston to Patricroft using a combination of tickets. Frustratingly the journey was on 24th November, the day before the ombudsman started.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've had one validly rejected by LNR/WMT (because the WTT was different to the PTT, but I thought I'd put it in anyway as I was annoyed about the way it had been handled) and successfully argued that as I still arrived precisely 30 minutes later than I otherwise would have done they still paid it.

 

[Starmill]

This case speaks entirely for itself.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

Southern routinely reject about 25% of mine, usually resolved first time when I resubmit, worse case was rejected three times, but fixed when I emailed a complaint.

Common reasons are:
Train doesn't exist (its in the timetable so not sure why this happend)
Train was not late (when I missed that train, since I didn't make connection due to 1st train being late)

 

[robbeech]

I’ve had the last 8 out of 9 Northern claims rejected. All 8 have been appealed and rejected again, all 8 have been appealed and escalated again and have yet to receive replies / are being tactically ignored. All 8 are now rapidly approaching their deadline. All 8 will be dealt with separately until the bitter end. Only 1 is for a journey over £20, the rest range from £3 to 13 or so. No missed connections, no other TOCs involved, no convoluted routes, nothing complicated, just straight forward CDR / SVR and a couple of Advances.
I’m fairly convinced but cannot prove that they’re deliberately rejecting a percentage of claims without even reading them to thin them out a bit.

 

[Ianno87]

I've had one or two rejected where the delayed train did not exceed the Delay Repay threshold, but the subsequent missed connection did cause the threshold to be exceeded, that had been overlooked.

Resolved with a re-submission.

 

[E759]

Southern:

Train was not late (when I missed that train, since I didn't make connection due to 1st train being late)
Train was not late (looking at RTT the train was re-timed later in the day so that it appeared to run to time) This was after overnight engineering works around Gatwick and my guess is my train was incorrectly timed without taking into account a proving run? We waited at Three Bridges for a Network Rail Pilotman but eventually proceeded without one.

Thameslink:

Journey not found - Horsham to Shildon. Approved at second attempt despite split tickets (4) being used and 100% refund awarded

 

[Skipness]

My claims have been made via Cross Country and have all been satisfactorily completed.
The latest reply suggested that next time I ought to use the electronic claim route rather than a paper form. Not really suitable when my claim journeys are between Cornwall and North Yorks involving multiple split tickets.

 

[infobleep]

I contacted GTR regarding a delayed rail replacement bus causing me to miss my connecting train.

The response was no such service existed. I appealed but I've not checked yet to see if my appeal was successful.

It was the first time I have had to appeal with them.

 

[Failed Unit]

I have had many GTR tickets incorrectly rejected. They seem to struggle with a late train missing a connection only taking into consideration the first trains delay.

Likewise missed trains due to last minute platform changes. (Finsbury Parks frequent move from 2 -> 4). But they normally pay on appeal now.

Most recently an LNER service 41 minutes late. Rejected my cliam as they said it didn’t meet the criteria. Accepted who i was travelling with on the same journey. Will use that as basis of my appeal.

 

[gingerheid]

I've had 13 GA and 26 GTR claims accepted smoothly.

In the same period:

- There was a bit of too-ing and fro-ing over a claim where GA were less than 30m late and GTR were less than 15m late, but overall my journey was caused to be >30m late.
-GTR initially denied a train deleted from the timetable ever existed during their meltdown, but accepted the claim on receipt of a message

 

[Trainfan344]

I had a LNER claim rejected and took me months to get the compensation I was owed.

 

[js1000]

I can only speak about Northern. Generally they usually sort the claim out within a couple of weeks. However I have noticed there is a noticeble difference in the time it takes to process depending on if you've requested a monetary refund (i.e. debit payment or cheque) vs equivalent exchange (i.e. free ticket or NR voucher) TOCs seem to be a lot more cautious about accepting claims that loses them money upfront which is understandable. Cash is king afterall. Would be interesting to hear if anyone else has this issue with other TOCs digging their heals in over monetary refunds.

 

[Richard Hall]

Every GWR claim I have submitted has been rejected. I appeal. They reject and this game goes on until they admit that the claim is valid. On two occasions I'd to go to Transport Focus who forced GWR into paying.

Most are delays through missed connections but the toughest one was bus not turning up for rail replacement causing 30 mins plus delay. Thankfully they rescinded after a fair few emails back and forth.

 

[hawk1911]

The weirdest one I've had involved two rail companies both reimbursing me for the same journey.

The journey was between Preston and Stafford, using Virgin from Preston to Crewe and London Northwestern from Crewe to Stafford.

Both trains were cancelled. However, an alternative Virgin service still got me into Crewe just in time for my booked London Northwestern service. As stated, the London Northwestern service was also cancelled, resulting in my arriving back into Stafford late.

1. I submitted a Delay Replay to London Northwestern, on the basis it was their cancellation that caused me to be late into my destination.
2. London Northwestern replied, rejecting my claim, stating it was Virgin's responsibility and that they had passed my claim to Virgin.
3. I then appealed to London Northwestern, pointing out that Virgin had got me into Crewe in time for my booked connecting service.
4. London Northwestern upheld my appeal and paid up.
5. A while later Virgin also paid up, sending me a cheque.
6. Rang Virgin, followed up with an email, pointing out that I had already been correctly compensated and that Virgin should not have compensated me as well.
7. Got a bizarre response from Virgin, who wanted to blame London Northwestern for compensating me and insisting that they were right and that they now considered the matter closed.

So, I ended up with Virgin and London Northwestern both compensating me for a cancelled London Northwestern train and Virgin refusing to accept they were wrong.

 

[rg177]

Still have a claim open from VTEC.

Split tickets across London. Exeter to Newcastle.

London to Newcastle is 65 minutes late so I claim for whole journey.

Only get compensation for that ticket so I call up and complain. Get a snotty response and staff member egged me on to contact Transport Focus.

I called them again later. Same response.

Only received compensation from Northern when I contacted their social media team and asked them to chase it up after I was offered a pound when I was owed 10. Again, split tickets. In the end I got the money I was owed however.

 

[sheff1]

I can only speak about Northern. Generally they usually sort the claim out within a couple of weeks. However I have noticed there is a noticeble difference in the time it takes to process depending on if you've requested a monetary refund (i.e. debit payment or cheque) vs equivalent exchange (i.e. free ticket or NR voucher) TOCs seem to be a lot more cautious about accepting claims that loses them money upfront which is understandable. Cash is king afterall. Would be interesting to hear if anyone else has this issue with other TOCs digging their heals in over monetary refunds.

Three recent claims:

LNER paid the wrong amount and then argued the toss for some time before eventually sending a second cheque.
XC sent RTVs for the correct amount quickly.
Northern sent a complimentary ticket very quickly - the value I got out of this was much more than I would have been entitled to if I had asked for cash.

 

[Typhoon]

The only times I have applied for Delay Repay have been on off peak journeys from the Kent coast to or towards London (South Eastern). I have been unsuccessful once (rough guess, 3 or 4 successful). Part of the way through the journey we were advised that the driver had been instructed to run slowly between signals, we then halted for some time.

No issues with on-board staff, kept us in touch with progress, apologies for lateness, advice to submit Delay Repay, eventually end up over 30 minutes late, miss the connection. I submit Delay Repay with ticket, marked by guard and detailed explanation of events.

This was declined as I did not submit evidence I was on that particular train (although all mid morning journeys were delayed as a knock on). Unfortunately, I had bought this ticket at a booking office. Previously I have booked on-line so I had printed out the itinerary, which they accepted as evidence that I was on a particular train, which it isn't as the conditions of the ticket are that I could travel on any journey that arrives in central London after 10:00. My journeys usually require one or two changes in each direction so I usually start my return rather earlier than given in the itinerary because of the unreliability of the first leg. If they are taking the itinerary as gospel, I could have (fraudulently) included a claim for the return journey as well as the outbound on a couple of occasions when I the nominated train was running late or cancelled – and they must know that.

I now include several photographs of digital platform clocks and station names at changing points, and on-board photos in my claim, I might even start to photograph the trains. Many of these could be disputed as evidence but I have never been turned down since.

I did not appeal as I could not prove I had been on that train. On another occasion, when a train was cancelled, I was expecting to be asked to prove that I was at the station on time for the cancelled train and not just late – the departures board is difficult to read, never mind photograph (I have tried) and the station is inconsistently staffed even when supposed to be open. It was accepted, possibly the volume (rather than quality) of evidence counted?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The only times I have applied for Delay Repay have been on off peak journeys from the Kent coast to or towards London (South Eastern). I have been unsuccessful once (rough guess, 3 or 4 successful). Part of the way through the journey we were advised that the driver had been instructed to run slowly between signals, we then halted for some time.

No issues with on-board staff, kept us in touch with progress, apologies for lateness, advice to submit Delay Repay, eventually end up over 30 minutes late, miss the connection. I submit Delay Repay with ticket, marked by guard and detailed explanation of events.

This was declined as I did not submit evidence I was on that particular train (although all mid morning journeys were delayed as a knock on). Unfortunately, I had bought this ticket at a booking office. Previously I have booked on-line so I had printed out the itinerary, which they accepted as evidence that I was on a particular train, which it isn't as the conditions of the ticket are that I could travel on any journey that arrives in central London after 10:00. My journeys usually require one or two changes in each direction so I usually start my return rather earlier than given in the itinerary because of the unreliability of the first leg. If they are taking the itinerary as gospel, I could have (fraudulently) included a claim for the return journey as well as the outbound on a couple of occasions when I the nominated train was running late or cancelled – and they must know that.

I now include several photographs of digital platform clocks and station names at changing points, and on-board photos in my claim, I might even start to photograph the trains. Many of these could be disputed as evidence but I have never been turned down since.

I did not appeal as I could not prove I had been on that train. On another occasion, when a train was cancelled, I was expecting to be asked to prove that I was at the station on time for the cancelled train and not just late – the departures board is difficult to read, never mind photograph (I have tried) and the station is inconsistently staffed even when supposed to be open. It was accepted, possibly the volume (rather than quality) of evidence counted?

I have never heard of rejections on such a basis before. Can anyone else perhaps confirm whether this is purely something that Southeastern are up to?

It is an utterly ludicrous requirement - how many passengers will, out of routine, take a picture to 'prove' they were on a particular train.

If this ever happens again, please do make a thread about it.

 

[Silverdale]

I did not appeal as I could not prove I had been on that train.

You were successfully intimidated into not appealing, then.

If the train company has any reason to suspect that your claim was fraudulent (which would be a serious matter), the onus is on them to provide evidence that you weren't on the train concerned.

 

[Typhoon]

You were successfully intimidated into not appealing, then.

That is fair to say, yes.

I should actually have been more careful with my words - rather than 'I did not appeal' I should have written 'I did not respond'. I could think of no way of proving my presence on the train and, because of this, I considered it a waste of time to ask what they would consider as 'evidence' as I almost certainly couldn't provide it. I was not aware of an appeals procedure at the time. It is only by being a member of this forum have I become aware of the niceties of the rail industry. Would I react differently now? Yes, of course - if only because I have seen the reaction of forum members (including yourself) to cases of non payment of Delay Repay (including mine). Whether the rejection is common, I have no idea; it could be one employee feeling particularly evil on a certain day, it could be that I had put in two successful claims shortly before hand and they were suspicious, but I think it is fairly likely that others will be rejected and be put off applying again. As I said, I now take photographs which have never been questioned. Should I have to? Probably not but it takes me less than a minute in total and if it guarantees my payment without having to respond to back-and-forth letters, it is probably worth it (for me).

 

[John Bray]

Southeastern rejected one London Bridge to Orpington when a Ashford fire took out 3/4 of their network. No trains were leaving LBG, so I went via Victoria with an hour's delay, only to find the LBG trains has resumed in the meantime. Paid on appeal. Not happy they quibbled on a day when they were in meltdown.

 

[EastCoastway]

FYI Journeycall are not automated.

Most rejections are because as a contractor they dont have access to Goldstar, LSM and the TOC's Webtis etc

 

[Mathew S]

I've never had any issues at all claiming delay repay through Northern or (much more occasionally) transpennine. The new Northern "dashboard" while it isn't perfect has made it much easier and faster for me to make a claim, and seems to have speeded the whole process up hugely. The last batch of claims I sent in (for February) were approved, and paid (in free tickets) in less than a week.

 

[EastCoastway]

Delay Repay is quite good

 

[island]

I’ve never had any issues with my “home” TOC, Southeastern. I did have a claim not met to the level of my expectations with Southern. Travelling Victoria to Eastbourne there were no trains expected for the foreseeable future, so I asked staff for advice and was told to travel to Charing Cross and take Southeastern to Hastings for a connection. This I did, arriving two and a half hours late. My claim for a full refund on a return ticket was only paid out as half the value, as apparently service had been restored and had I hung around at Victoria indefinitely I would have been able to catch a train that would have had me at Eastbourne 105 minutes late.

The journey was on expenses and I also successfully claimed a 60 minute delay on the return trip, so I did not press the matter.