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Haymarket to Dalmeny electrification

takno

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Yes the cuts announced yesterday seem to relate mainly to revenue spend rather than capital spend. In any event the books can be balanced this year so any planned electrification work during 2024/25 which already had funding allocated should be unaffected. The budget black hole this year was nearly £1 billion so in addition to the £500 million of cuts the Scot Gov has utilised nearly £500 million of ScotWind money ie. receipts from auctioning seabed plots for offshore projects. ScotWind money won’t be available every year as it was a one off auction, so unless the Uk govt’s spending decisions result in real terms increases in Barnett consequentials the next few years are going to be very challenging for the Scot Gov whichever party is in power at Holyrood.
I think everyone is hoping and assuming that growth and falls in interest rates will free up well over 5bn in English spending over the next couple of years, which would cover the 500m gap.

Hopefully both governments can get into a much more sensible place on investment spend as well over the next couple of years, whether that comes through more creative interpretations of fiscal rules, more PPI or something else.
 
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RailUK Forums

Meerkat

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Given a UK Government budget cut of the Scotland Government budget. The Finance Secretaries statement to Parliament today has announced a £500m, budget cut for the year.
I know the SNP love to blame Westminster but some official auditor said it was largely down to their own policy choices.
when was the last time the decarbonisation plan was updated/reviewed - what’s the theoretical EK completion date?
Or are they following standard cross party political behaviour of avoiding a review that will inevitably tell you the previous plan is unaffordable and unachievable, and just let the planners blunder along working in a policy void?
 

snowball

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when was the last time the decarbonisation plan was updated/reviewed - what’s the theoretical EK completion date?
The EK line is due to be completed by the end of 2025 and appears to be on schedule or ahead of it.
The original traction decarbonisation strategy was published in summer 2020:


It did not include dates for constituent schemes but it's now overwhelmingly clear that the overall target is most unlikely to be met. The net rate of progress so far has been a small fraction of what would be needed (except perhaps for provision of feeder stations).

The first update, or "refresh", was promised for spring 2023 and has been repeatedly delayed.

There was a burst of enthusiasm in 2022 with works seemingly starting on several routes but this was soon followed by a big slowdown when the finances got worse.
 
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3RDGEN

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The EK line is due to be completed by the end of 2025 and appears to be on schedule or ahead of it.
The original traction decarbonisation strategy was published in summer 2020:


It did not include dates for constituent schemes but it's now overwhelmingly clear that the overall target is most unlikely to be met. The net rate of progress so far has been a small fraction of what would be needed (except perhaps for provision of feeder stations).

The first update, or "refresh", was promised for spring 2023 and has been repeatedly delayed.

There was a burst of enthusiasm in 2022 with works seemingly starting on several routes but this was soon followed by a big slowdown when the finances got worse.
There is a further document in May 2022, "https://www.transport.gov.scot/publication/zero-emission-energy-for-transport-forecasts-national/" - Zero Emission Energy for Transport Report National Demand Forecasts for Electricity and Hydrogen. From page 123 the Rail Demand Assumptions details a comprehensive calendar of works and resulting outcomes up to 2035 however as you say there's been no update since and most of the timescales are not going to be met now. Not sure this calendar of work was ever more than an assumption or aspiration but it gives a good idea of the work flow and fleet outcomes.
 

GRALISTAIR

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I just saw the following on LinkedIn


The Fife Electrification Project is moving forward!

Our team has installed 610 piles for our client SPL, using two Colmar T10000s with side grip and a piling hammer, accessing the Fife lines at Lennymuir, Edinburgh. All planned works are now wrapped up
 
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snowball

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From Google satellite view, the distance along the route from the most westerly existing 4-track portal at Carrick Knowe to the south end of the Forth Bridge approach viaduct just north of Dalmeny station seems to be within a whisker of 10km, so that works out to an average separation of one foundation every 16m if they are all TTCs, or a pair every 32m if they are all STCs. Does that sound about right?
 
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hux385

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More stanchions have appeared at Saughton curve recently. I only travel on the E-G express line so unfortunately I cannot vouch for any progress on masts further along the line, but it's good to hear the piling has been progressing quickly.
 

GRALISTAIR

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From Google satellite view, the distance along the route from the most westerly existing 4-track portal at Carrick Knowe to the south end of the Forth Bridge approach viaduct just north of Dalmeny station seems to be within a whisker of 10km, so that works out to an average separation of one foundation every 16m if they are all TTCs, or a pair every 32m if they are all STCs. Does that sound about right?
There are some twin track cantilever sections waiting to be mounted on the masts at Saughton.
So perhaps a mix of both STCs and TTCs?
 

59CosG95

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From Google satellite view, the distance along the route from the most westerly existing 4-track portal at Carrick Knowe to the south end of the Forth Bridge approach viaduct just north of Dalmeny station seems to be within a whisker of 10km, so that works out to an average separation of one foundation every 16m if they are all TTCs, or a pair every 32m if they are all STCs. Does that sound about right?
Surprisingly that's far too close together! You only really get masts spaced like that around crossovers; most mast separations are around 55-60m, with perhaps a little less (circa 50m) at overlaps. The foundation count may of course be skewed if foundations for backtied structures are also being counted, but given that SSAs (Simply Supported Anchors; also known in this forum as "wicket-keepers") tend to be first preference now, that seems unlikely.
 

Cails27

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The masts have been going up little by little at weekends for the last month or so. Weeknight closures are planned again from the Dec ‘24 timetable to accommodate further works. The last couple of evening trains back to Edinburgh will be diverted over Dalmeny/Winchburgh chord Mon-Thurs nights.
 

EMU303

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With masts going up is there any news of train procurement for what will run underneath them (other than the recently announced plan to phase out the HST by 2030)?
 

snowball

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Surprisingly that's far too close together! You only really get masts spaced like that around crossovers; most mast separations are around 55-60m, with perhaps a little less (circa 50m) at overlaps. The foundation count may of course be skewed if foundations for backtied structures are also being counted, but given that SSAs (Simply Supported Anchors; also known in this forum as "wicket-keepers") tend to be first preference now, that seems unlikely.
There are loops and sidings just south of Dalmeny station that could add to the stk's to be wired. There may also be a runoff along the curve towards Winchburgh.

With masts going up is there any news of train procurement for what will run underneath them (other than the recently announced plan to phase out the HST by 2030)?
No. Nothing heard in over two years. We really need to be hearing something about battery train procurement.
 
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A330Alex

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The timelines for this project remain bemusing. Whilst it’s obviously great to see progress, the bridge works aren’t due to start until Christmas 2025!
 

hux385

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Here's a couple of photos of Saughton curve today. I took them from the train so they are slightly dodgy images haha20240918_102917.jpg20240918_102912.jpg
 

59CosG95

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They've started quickly now!
AIVR cabride footage from the 10th of September shows the Saughton Curve being devoid of masts towards Dalmeny.
Interesting that they've kept the old "E" route code - but then again, I suppose it is "technically" the ECML...
 

chuff chuff

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The timelines for this project remain bemusing. Whilst it’s obviously great to see progress, the bridge works aren’t due to start until Christmas 2025!
Does seem to be bits and pieces,from what I can or can't see there are still gaps in the pilings though there still looks like there's plenty lying at the compound at Turnhouse.
Stanchion wise there are those at saughton and a handful in the cutting by Turnhouse.
 

GRALISTAIR

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They've started quickly now!
AIVR cabride footage from the 10th of September shows the Saughton Curve being devoid of masts towards Dalmeny.
Interesting that they've kept the old "E" route code - but then again, I suppose it is "technically" the ECML...
Yes it seems with quite a few railway infrastructure projects that nothing seems to happen for ages. Then, all of a sudden, plenty of visible progress.
 

themiller

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Is there any news regarding the testing of components on the Forth Bridge? It would be operationally convenient to have continuous knitting rather than needing to pan-up and down causing micro pitting from the sparks.
 

najaB

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It would be operationally convenient to have continuous knitting rather than needing to pan-up and down causing micro pitting from the sparks.
Surely you'd have a length of non-energised wire/conductor bar at either end of the electrified sections for exactly this reason?
 

GRALISTAIR

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Is there any news regarding the testing of components on the Forth Bridge? It would be operationally convenient to have continuous knitting rather than needing to pan-up and down causing micro pitting from the sparks.
Well the whole Scottish approach of taking their time to wire and use battery/AC bimode EMUs is, they have bought themselves time. No need to tie to a timetable change and plenty of time to test components.

Also, it has been repeatedly stated on this forum by some experts, is the biggest problem will be getting sign-off from the World Heritage Organisation.
 

D6130

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Also, it has been repeatedly stated on this forum by some experts, is the biggest problem will be getting sign-off from the World Heritage Organisation.
Numerous other large and famous bridges which are - or should be - UNESCO World Heritage Sites have catenary strung across them....
for example the Royal Border Bridge at Berwick, the Viaduc de Garabit in Central France and the Rendsburg high-level bridge in Northern Germany. It just has to be designed to fit in sensitively with the structure.
 

InOban

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I assume that they are using the same team that have been working on the EK route but have some time o their hands?
 
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Also, it has been repeatedly stated on this forum by some experts, is the biggest problem will be getting sign-off from the World Heritage Organisation.
True that it's repeatedly stated but I think this more of an urban myth. Just a case of using gantry designs that look like a proper sensible railway.
Then again, maybe not so easy after all.
 

Trainbike46

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Also, it has been repeatedly stated on this forum by some experts, is the biggest problem will be getting sign-off from the World Heritage Organisation.
That's funny, because what I've seen experts say is that it should be fine after a design has been made that is sensitive to the structure and capable of surviving the unusually salty environment. Isn't network rail doing some tests for that at the moment?
 

59CosG95

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That's funny, because what I've seen experts say is that it should be fine after a design has been made that is sensitive to the structure and capable of surviving the unusually salty environment. Isn't network rail doing some tests for that at the moment?
A Listed Building Consent did go in. (22/04987/LBC | Temporary installation of electrification equipment. | Forth Rail Bridge Hawes Brae South Queensferry.)
It was approved, on 28/11/2022, but only for a period of 18 Months for a temporary development. (The 18-month period has now elapsed, and I've heard nothing in the industry about the trial ever having taken place.)
AFAICS the assembly would have been on the Queensferry Pier (the southernmost one), on the Down (Northbound) side.
 

fgwrich

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A Listed Building Consent did go in. (22/04987/LBC | Temporary installation of electrification equipment. | Forth Rail Bridge Hawes Brae South Queensferry.)
It was approved, on 28/11/2022, but only for a period of 18 Months for a temporary development. (The 18-month period has now elapsed, and I've heard nothing in the industry about the trial ever having taken place.)
AFAICS the assembly would have been on the Queensferry Pier (the southernmost one), on the Down (Northbound) side.

I haven’t seen any additional steelwork appearing on the bridge either, which is a little disappointing.
 

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