Head Boards

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Condor7

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The more seasoned enthusiasts among you may realise this already, but I had always been led to believe that HST's were not capable of having a head board fixed to them.

I notice however in the latest issue of Rail Express there is a shot of the HST charter to the Keighley and Worth Valley railway and it was carrying a headboard.

Is this a more modern development, or have they always been able to have them fitted, and what about 225's, Pendolinos, and Voyagers etc. are they also able to carry them?
 
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Cherry_Picker

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I cant speak for all traction, but I am of the understanding that a headboard will clip onto any place an external headlamp or tail lamp can be attached to, so you would be surprised just how many trains are capable of having them.

The London Midland 172s had headboards on when they were doing test runs last year. link (flickr)
 

Crossover

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There are hooks for lamps where you'd least expect them...such as on the rear of coach B of a Pendo! What James says sounds logical, but I couldn't say more than that
 

shedman

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The more seasoned enthusiasts among you may realise this already, but I had always been led to believe that HST's were not capable of having a head board fixed to them.

I notice however in the latest issue of Rail Express there is a shot of the HST charter to the Keighley and Worth Valley railway and it was carrying a headboard.

Is this a more modern development, or have they always been able to have them fitted, and what about 225's, Pendolinos, and Voyagers etc. are they also able to carry them?
The HSTs bracket is detachable and kept in the emergency cupboard with the draw gear and slides into a fitting central on the top of the hatch on the nose cone. The class 91s bracket is also detachable and is kept on the equipment bay on the left hand side as you walk in from number 1 cab. This slides into a gap on the rubbing plate at the front. Can't remember about DVT. The mk iv coaches have tail lights built into the ends and I've only managed to get them to work on the TOE vehicle when its been the rear coach (no loco) so whether or not there is some sort of circuit interlock I don't know? Hope that helps
 

AndyLandy

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The more seasoned enthusiasts among you may realise this already, but I had always been led to believe that HST's were not capable of having a head board fixed to them.

I notice however in the latest issue of Rail Express there is a shot of the HST charter to the Keighley and Worth Valley railway and it was carrying a headboard.

Is this a more modern development, or have they always been able to have them fitted, and what about 225's, Pendolinos, and Voyagers etc. are they also able to carry them?
Back in 2000/2001, it was common for CrossCountry HST services to have headboards. I have fond memories of catching the "Pines Express" or the "Wessex Scot"
 

Roverman

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I imagine people said no because it spoils the lines. With a bracket however anything can be fitted to anything (within reason) I would be intrigued to know if it remains in place at 125 though.

This reminds of the story about BL wanting to put the Rover V8 into the then new XJ40, someone piped up "It won't fit" and that was the end of that. Many years later that man admitted he had never even tried to fit one, he just assumed it wouldn't!
 

rebmcr

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Well that is a matter of opinion I guess, personally I could not disagree more, I think they look good, and would like to see more.
Maybe if they fit in more with contemporary styling, but arched lettering designed for a smokebox door looks very out-of-place, especially in a serif typeface and more 'traditional' colours.
 

sprinterguy

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Back in 2000/2001, it was common for CrossCountry HST services to have headboards. I have fond memories of catching the "Pines Express" or the "Wessex Scot"
Wait a minute, what? Admittedly, the "Wessex Scot" and "Pines Express" were "West side" Crosscountry services that might as well have been in France to me as a young 'un, but I never saw any headboards attached to the West Coast XC HSTs when I watched them at Penrith or Carlisle during that period, and I would have thought that such occurrences would have unearthed a few photos either online or in the more respected texts on that era by now.

I just have some difficulty believing that Virgin Crosscountry were busy reinstating the age old tradition of headboards at the same time that they were merrily plastering their locos and power cars with big stick-on vinyls in the place of nameplates.
 

AndyLandy

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Wait a minute, what? Admittedly, the "Wessex Scot" and "Pines Express" were "West side" Crosscountry services that might as well have been in France to me as a young 'un, but I never saw any headboards attached to the West Coast XC HSTs when I watched them at Penrith or Carlisle during that period, and Ii would have thought that such occurrences would have unearthed a few photos either online or in the more respected texts on that era by now.
I came to Southampton University in 2000, and I distinctly remember the CrossCountry services having headboards. It's possible the service was 47-hauled, rather than HST, but I clearly remember the names "Pines Express" and "Wessex Scot". I wish I'd taken photos! (But alas, in the days before smartphones, I wouldn't have had one on me)

According to Wikipedia (Source of all Fact™ on the Internet):

"All named CrossCountry trains finally lost their names as part of Virgin CrossCountry's Operation Princess in 2002."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pines_Express#Revival_of_the_Pines_Express_name

Edit: Oh, and the Wessex Scot should have come up your way. Poole to Glasgow Central (I assume via the WCML). I think that would have been the service that called at Hartford. (I miss the days of a direct train between Southampton and Hartford!)
 
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sprinterguy

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I came to Southampton University in 2000, and I distinctly remember the CrossCountry services having headboards. It's possible the service was 47-hauled, rather than HST, but I clearly remember the names "Pines Express" and "Wessex Scot". I wish I'd taken photos! (But alas, in the days before smartphones, I wouldn't have had one on me)

According to Wikipedia (Source of all Fact™ on the Internet):

"All named CrossCountry trains finally lost their names as part of Virgin CrossCountry's Operation Princess in 2002."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pines_Express#Revival_of_the_Pines_Express_name
That says that Crosscountry lost their named trains in 2002, though not that they necessarily carried headboards up until that time. I think that the "Pines Express" was a 47 hauled train, though that doesn't mean that it didn't carry a headboard, either - You may be right, but I've come across precious few photos of Crosscountry services carrying them.

Oh, and the Wessex Scot should have come up your way. Poole to Glasgow Central (I assume via the WCML). I think that would have been the service that called at Hartford. (I miss the days of a direct train between Southampton and Hartford!)
That's right, which is why I mentioned such services, as there's a fair chance that I'll have seen the "Wessex Scot" at some time, at least once - I never really kept track of named trains (Had to dig out an old timetable to check up on the Wessex Scot), but I know that I never saw an HST, or even a Crosscountry loco hauled service, carrying a headboard.
 

AndyLandy

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That says that Crosscountry lost their named trains in 2002, though not that they necessarily carried headboards up until that time. I think that the "Pines Express" was a 47 hauled train, though that doesn't mean that it didn't carry a headboard, either - You may be right, but I've come across precious few photos of Crosscountry services carrying them.
I can find precious little evidence either. I mean, I guess it's possible I just hallucinated the whole thing, but if the trains weren't carrying headboards, I'm not sure how I'd have known the train's name.

You're quite right about the Pines Express being loco-hauled though. There's apparently a DVD of a Virgin Pines Express run available: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Riding-The-Pines-Express-Manchester/dp/B001M13OW2. I have to confess that I didn't really know much about trains back then, so what were HSTs and what were 47s isn't something I can really discern from memory.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Even this took some finding. Not a CrossCountry one, but an HST with a headboard:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_harvey_railway_photos/8152091793/
 

TDK

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Anything with a standard lamp bracket can, in theory, carry a head board.
Class 175's has one but this is in a horizontal plane so therefore if a headboard was fitted either it would need to be specially made or be presented 90 degrees out
 

Crossover

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Class 175's has one but this is in a horizontal plane so therefore if a headboard was fitted either it would need to be specially made or be presented 90 degrees out
What use is having it in an horizontal plane? Surely a lamp could slide off it going round corners or something?
 

GM078

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I know in some cases there will be a lamp bracket present but there will be a light or other fixture adjacent that will preclude the fitting of a headboard (the Irish 201s are like this, they can't take a steam era headboard, but can take a shorter disc type).
 

lukefarley

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I hope you don't mind the minor 'plug' - I thought it would be of interest to those who are interested in headboards (and particularly HSTs carrying headboards!)
FGW recently placed two headboards on its HSTs as part of the relaunch of its named trains. Headboards from 'The Mayflower' and 'The Red Dragon' were used.
You can see pictures in the accompanying leaflet - which can be found at http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/~/media/PDF/About%20us/Named%20Trains.ashx

All the best,

Luke
 
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