• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Heart of Wales Line closed until August 3rd

Status
Not open for further replies.

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
From NRE Website:-

Following a safety inspection of a railway bridge near Pontarddulais, the line will be closed for approximately 8 weeks for urgent repairs to take place. The current estimate for the line to reopen is Monday 31 August.

There will be no train service between Llanelli and Llandrindod.

Buses will run:
  • From Llanelli, calling at all stations to Llandrindod then continue to Shrewsbury, setting down at intermediate stations as required.
  • From Llandrindod to Swansea
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

tomwills98

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2018
Messages
292
Location
Bridgend
Unsafe timbers on the bridge over the Afon Llwchwr and it'll take around eight weeks for the new bits to arrive.
 

Parallel

Established Member
Joined
9 Dec 2013
Messages
3,927
Interesting that they’re terminating at Llandrindod and not further south, they’ve terminated at Pantyffynnon previously during engineering works within recent years. I guess there is additional staffing constraints with the current situation and I can’t imagine HOWL trains are particularly busy at the moment.
 

Llanigraham

Established Member
Joined
23 Mar 2013
Messages
6,074
Location
Powys
Shrewsbury drivers only sign to Llanwrtyd Wells, so that would cause a problem swapping crews.
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
Interesting that they’re terminating at Llandrindod and not further south, they’ve terminated at Pantyffynnon previously during engineering works within recent years. I guess there is additional staffing constraints with the current situation and I can’t imagine HOWL trains are particularly busy at the moment.
Shrewsbury depot don't sign further south than Llanwrtyd and Carmarthen don't sign further north than Llandrindod. Changeovers normally occur at both stations in the normal timetable, so there's no route-signing reason they couldn't provide a service down as far as Llanwrtyd using Shrewsbury crews. Of course I'm sure someone will point out it's going to lead to some operationally inconvenient/wasteful rosters to do things that way...

In theory they could even run a service down as far as Pantyffynnon and back but that would require taxiing Carmarthen train crew out to Llanwrtyd or Llandrindod... I don't think they're going to go to that effort when an RRB is probably going to cost less to operate than the normal train!
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
Shrewsbury depot don't sign further south than Llanwrtyd and Carmarthen don't sign further north than Llandrindod. Changeovers normally occur at both stations in the normal timetable, so there's no route-signing reason they couldn't provide a service down as far as Llanwrtyd using Shrewsbury crews. Of course I'm sure someone will point out it's going to lead to some operationally inconvenient/wasteful rosters to do things that way...

In theory they could even run a service down as far as Pantyffynnon and back but that would require taxiing Carmarthen train crew out to Llanwrtyd or Llandrindod... I don't think they're going to go to that effort when an RRB is probably going to cost less to operate than the normal train!

At the moment there is COVID reduced service Timetable in operation and both the crossovers were scheduled to take place at Llandrindod hence the reason. Even if Carmarthen crews were to be taxied they wouldn't have a unit to work with.
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
At the moment there is COVID reduced service Timetable in operation and both the crossovers were scheduled to take place at Llandrindod hence the reason. Even if Carmarthen crews were to be taxied they wouldn't have a unit to work with.
So basically it's yet another case of a train company saying "we can't be bothered to run a proper train service". It'd be nice if they admitted as much, rather than pretending to use infrastructure issues as a fig leaf.

You can be sure that in BR days they would have changed the timetable to make it work.
 

Brissle Girl

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2018
Messages
2,481
So basically it's yet another case of a train company saying "we can't be bothered to run a proper train service". It'd be nice if they admitted as much, rather than pretending to use infrastructure issues as a fig leaf.

You can be sure that in BR days they would have changed the timetable to make it work.
Hang on a minute, where is the TOC saying it is infrastructure issues? Have you just assumed that because posters on here have said so then that is what the TOC is saying?
Besides, In BR days they didn’t have the biggest disruption to services, and indeed life in general, since WW2 to contend with. So I can’t be at all sure that BR would have done any different.
 

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,004
You can be sure that in BR days they would have changed the timetable to make it work.

I would not be invoking British Rail in a thread discussing bridge safety, particularly on a thread concerning bridge safety on the Heart of Wales Line.

Four people, including the train driver, lost their lives as a result of British Rail's less than brilliant attitude to safety.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,866
Location
Airedale
So basically it's yet another case of a train company saying "we can't be bothered to run a proper train service".
In the present circumstances running two trains a day from Llandrindod to Llanwrtyd and back would be of marginal benefit. When TfW decide to restore a weekday service it might be another matter.

I would not be invoking British Rail in a thread discussing bridge safety, particularly on a thread concerning bridge safety on the Heart of Wales Line.
Four people, including the train driver, lost their lives as a result of British Rail's less than brilliant attitude to safety.
You are entitled to your opinion, but - having checked the recommendations - it is not confirmed by the Inspector's report.
However, that is a bit off topic.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
Following on from the advice regarding the revised re-opening date, TFW now saying that the lack of a train service at the southern end is for staff safety due to COVID-19 legislation but not explaining in depth.
 

Mordac

Established Member
Joined
5 Mar 2016
Messages
2,303
Location
Birmingham
It's the New
Following on from the advice regarding the revised re-opening date, TFW now saying that the lack of a train service at the southern end is for staff safety due to COVID-19 legislation but not explaining in depth.
It's the new Health and Safety. A ready excuse for not doing things you don't want to do anyway.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
It's the New

It's the new Health and Safety. A ready excuse for not doing things you don't want to do anyway.


That is what somebody else said on another thread until the circumstances were explained to them.
 
Last edited:

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,811
Location
Dublin
Worth posting what is on Journey Check:

Heart of Wales Line closure between Llanelli and Llandrindod Wells
Due to structural damage to the bridge between Pontarddulais and Hendy Junction, it is unsafe for trains to pass over the bridge.
Services will start and terminate at Llandrindod Wells until repairs are complete. This may take up to 8 weeks. Road transport will be provided between Llanelli and Llandrindod in both directions until further notice.

Cancellations to services between Llanelli and Llandrindod
Due to urgent repairs to a bridge between Llanelli and Llandrindod the line is blocked.

Impact
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled or terminated at Llandrindod and restarted from Llanelli. All stations between Llandrindod and Llanelli will not be served. Disruption is expected until 23:59 03/08.

Customer Advice
Train services will operate between Shrewsbury & Llandrindod Wells and Swansea & Llanelli, in both directions. Change at Llandrindod Wells or Llanelli for road transport southbound and northbound, respectively.

Road transport operators will vary but will use both a large bus and a minibus, in order to access all stations and maintain connection times. Road vehicles will connect with trains at Llandrindod Wells and Llanelli, respectively.

Replacement road transport services are conveying passengers between Llandrindod and Llanelli via Llandovery and Llandeilo in both directions until further notice.

Road transport will connect out of train services at Llanelli, serving all stations northbound to Llandrindod Wells then set-down at stations by request, to Shrewsbury.

Road transport will connect out of train services at Llandrindod Wells, serving all stations southbound to Llanelli, then extending to Gowerton and Swansea.

Buses depart Llanelli (northbound for Llandrindod Wells/Shrewsbury) at 11:45 and 16:10. The connecting train arrives at Llanelli (from Swansea) at 11:35 and 16:00.

Buses depart Llandrindod (southbound for Llanelli/Swansea) at 13:50 and 18:10. The connecting train arrives at Llandrindod (from Shrewsbury) at 13:40 and 18:00.

Additional Information
Social distancing on replacement buses means that spaces are limited. Additional requirements for the safety of staff (for example - mandatory face masks/coverings) may be required by individual road transport operators. It is strongly advised to be prepared and to carry appropriate personal protective equipment (P.P.E.).

Further Information
A defect on the Afon Llwchwr rail-over-river bridge, between Pontarddulais and Hendy, means that urgent repairs are required. These are expected to be completed by 2 August.

The southern and mid sections of the Heart of Wales Line will remain closed, due to both the line closure and for staff protection (Covid-19 duty of care) legislation.

Trafnidiaeth Cymru/Transport for Wales

If you have experienced a delay or cancellation, please contact our customer relations team or pick up a form from your nearest ticket office. You can email us using: [email protected]
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
The Timetable has been rehashed from today to enable trains from Shrewsbury to run to Llanwrtyd and turn back from there
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,866
Location
Airedale
The Timetable has been rehashed from today to enable trains from Shrewsbury to run to Llanwrtyd and turn back from there
Good news, and glad I was wrong. It means that the RRB ex Llanelli can leave almost at the booked train time, so less bus mileage.
 
Last edited:

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
Good news, and glad I was wrong. It means that the RRB ex Llanelli can leave almost at the booked train time, so less bus mileage.

TFW didn't bother to tell anybody with the only info available in Journey Planner. Journey Check was left out of date so I pointed this out and they have updated one of the two entries andnow left the two entries contradicting each other.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
You can be sure that in BR days they would have changed the timetable to make it work.
I think that's definitely something that you cannot be sure of.

Indeed, BR would reasonably have taken events like this as an opportunity to attempt to withdraw all services on this line permemently, and rid themselves of the ludicrous costs of providing a train and crew for such a service.

Be careful what you wish for, and all of that.
 

R G NOW.

Member
Joined
25 Jan 2019
Messages
418
Location
gloucester
I think that's definitely something that you cannot be sure of.

Indeed, BR would reasonably have taken events like this as an opportunity to attempt to withdraw all services on this line permemently, and rid themselves of the ludicrous costs of providing a train and crew for such a service.

Be careful what you wish for, and all of that.
There was talk of closing this line back in the eighties. British Rail always seem to want it closed, But too much opposition and it survived due to the communities it serves. So the repair to the bridge is now essential. I believe it survived as it is a quick route also to Shrewsbury.
 

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
7,768
Location
Herts
I think that's definitely something that you cannot be sure of.

Indeed, BR would reasonably have taken events like this as an opportunity to attempt to withdraw all services on this line permemently, and rid themselves of the ludicrous costs of providing a train and crew for such a service.

Be careful what you wish for, and all of that.

Those of us with a long , operational memory can recall after the tragic Glanrhyd Bridge collapse - apart from BR promising on the spot virtually to rebuild the line and so on , maintained shuttle workings to as near to the point of obstruction to minimise the bus requirements , BR's efforts after the Ness Bridge collapse were even more comprehensive. (won't go into that now - but it was pretty impressive)

So a little less sniping , if you please.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
So a little less sniping , if you please.
Only insofar as people can stick with the facts of the current circumstances. People who are well informed rarely believe that 'everything was better under BR'.

Instead, some people have a political agenda against TfW and will use any nonsense criticisms they can find against them :)
 
Last edited:

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
7,768
Location
Herts
Only insofar as people can stick with the facts of the current circumstances. People who are well informed rarely believe that 'everything was better under BR'.

Everything was not better under BR (but it did usually make as good an effort as it could) - not impressed myself with this curtailment and I speak as someone who not only had a pretty long BR career on the front line , and a resident many years ago of that particular part of South West Wales.

However - to quote the usual phrase - "we are where we are" - and maybe under non COVID19 constraints a Pantyffynon to Llandod rail shuttle could have been put in place , it is a fairly safe place to outstable a unit - I dare say a good number of crews live fairly locally for historical reasons when there was a train crew depot there , and as the crow flies it is an easy enough journey on uncrowded roads (even normally) to and from Carmarthen.

BUT - you have now have very tight cleaning regimes and all the other C19 stuff , and with a very limited number of trains and probably hardly anyone travelling (despite recent welcome lifts of accessibility etc) , so a bus from Llanelli is an option to get the "essential" journeys covered for now. The key is to fast track those bridge timber replacements. To recover any scraps of business you can.

Anyway - apologies for sort of jumping in there ....sure you get the contrition. ("BR" and "Wales" rings a few bells)

Maybe someone in the historical bit might raise the Ness Bridge collapse - now that really was a good effort to keep the show on the road.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
Everything was not better under BR (but it did usually make as good an effort as it could) - not impressed myself with this curtailment and I speak as someone who not only had a pretty long BR career on the front line , and a resident many years ago of that particular part of South West Wales.

However - to quote the usual phrase - "we are where we are" - and maybe under non COVID19 constraints a Pantyffynon to Llandod rail shuttle could have been put in place , it is a fairly safe place to outstable a unit - I dare say a good number of crews live fairly locally for historical reasons when there was a train crew depot there , and as the crow flies it is an easy enough journey on uncrowded roads (even normally) to and from Carmarthen.

BUT - you have now have very tight cleaning regimes and all the other C19 stuff , and with a very limited number of trains and probably hardly anyone travelling (despite recent welcome lifts of accessibility etc) , so a bus from Llanelli is an option to get the "essential" journeys covered for now. The key is to fast track those bridge timber replacements. To recover any scraps of business you can.

Anyway - apologies for sort of jumping in there ....sure you get the contrition. ("BR" and "Wales" rings a few bells)

Maybe someone in the historical bit might raise the Ness Bridge collapse - now that really was a good effort to keep the show on the road.
I agree with your analysis of BR more generally as in this thread. However I contend that the criticism in particular was politically motivated, and that any old claim would be fabricated by that individual in order to have a go at the Welsh Government. I further contend that there would be almost no benefit in the extra services as suggested, because almost nobody travels on the route usually and even fewer people are doing so now, but it would cost a significant amount of money. Some people have failed to understand just how tight money is about to get for the railway unfortunately, and if anyone thinks that spending more on interventions such as this is top priority, there will be an unpleasant surprise in the future. Some routes had no replacement bus for an extended period, doesn't seem like the Heart of Wales is one of them?

There are valid reasons to make criticisms of Keolis-Amey Wales and the Welsh Government. This is not one of them.
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
I think that's definitely something that you cannot be sure of.

Indeed, BR would reasonably have taken events like this as an opportunity to attempt to withdraw all services on this line permemently, and rid themselves of the ludicrous costs of providing a train and crew for such a service.

Be careful what you wish for, and all of that.
Even ignoring the fact that a virtually identical situation occurred during BR times and they did as @ChiefPlanner said, there is a reason that the Heart of Wales line wasn't closed during the Beeching days. I suspect any attempted closure of the Heart of Wales Line would have been hotly contested, just as the Settle-Carlisle stitchup was.

I'm under no illusions over BR's foibles, but at least they didn't do what TfW did by simply deciding to give up on operating a line that they'd rather not have to run. That TfW decided to abandon the Heart of Wales line has nothing to do with my views on the organisation more generally.
 

JN114

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2005
Messages
3,346
Even ignoring the fact that a virtually identical situation occurred during BR times and they did as @ChiefPlanner said, there is a reason that the Heart of Wales line wasn't closed during the Beeching days. I suspect any attempted closure of the Heart of Wales Line would have been hotly contested, just as the Settle-Carlisle stitchup was.

I'm under no illusions over BR's foibles, but at least they didn't do what TfW did by simply deciding to give up on operating a line that they'd rather not have to run. That TfW decided to abandon the Heart of Wales line has nothing to do with my views on the organisation more generally.

They haven’t given up though, have they? They’re operating as much as is practical given the little global pandemic we’re currently in - 2m social distancing is pretty tough on a taxi journey from Carmarthen for the only train crew that sign the road - perhaps the train crew should hike to work, would that be showing sufficient effort?
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
They haven’t given up though, have they? They’re operating as much as is practical given the little global pandemic we’re currently in - 2m social distancing is pretty tough on a taxi journey from Carmarthen for the only train crew that sign the road - perhaps the train crew should hike to work, would that be showing sufficient effort?

Is there any way to set up the timetable so they could drive their own car to the changeover point and work round trips only?
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
They haven’t given up though, have they? They’re operating as much as is practical given the little global pandemic we’re currently in - 2m social distancing is pretty tough on a taxi journey from Carmarthen for the only train crew that sign the road - perhaps the train crew should hike to work, would that be showing sufficient effort?
Taxis have continued to be used for traincrew all through the country throughout the crisis. Many trains wouldn't get to or from the depot, and others would never run, any other way. 2m social distancing isn't difficult when sitting on the back row of a taxi on the opposite side to the driver. Many taxis have front/rear dividers anyway, so TfW could make sure all taxis have them. Masks further reduce the risk.

Is there any way to set up the timetable so they could drive their own car to the changeover point and work round trips only?
Although it's difficult to imagine living in Pembrokeshire (and especially as a driver/guard) without a car, there may be some staff in that position. It wouldn't necessarily be reasonable to expect everyone to use their car to make work related journeys, certainly not on short notice. The correct solution here, as has historically always been the case, is to organise a taxi.
 
Last edited:

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
7,768
Location
Herts
As I said - best answer is to try and fast track the bridge timbers -all horribly difficult at the moment - even a patch (but safe job) with 5 mph and a watchman would get functionality back for the very modest use.

The HoW has survived several closure threats - 1967 and 1972 and a few other issues since then , the operating ratio was / is is awful -at least 5 to 1 cost / revenue and we could discuss this for ever. But - it is a service. The previous survivals were wonderfully debated in Cabinet over the number of marginal seats it ran through in 1967 , which had a clear impact on a non-closure decision. See George Thomas' s comments to Harold Wilson on it.

Anyway - best wishes for full a re-opening. As soon as practical.
 

221129

Established Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
6,520
Location
Sunny Scotland
Taxis have continued to be used for traincrew all through the country throughout the crisis. Many trains wouldn't get to or from the depot, and others would never run, any other way. 2m social distancing isn't difficult when sitting on the back row of a taxi on the opposite side to the driver. Many taxis have front/rear dividers anyway, so TfW could make sure all taxis have them. Masks further reduce the risk.
You would quite likely need to provide 2 taxis each time. And for what it's worth most TOCs have significantly reduced shared taxi use at the moment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top