Heathrow Express GWR Contract

[BMIFlyer]

Automatic ticket gates are currently being installed at Heathrow Airport stations.

 

[Muzer]

Apologies for not reading through all 331 posts if this has been said already. But would this presumably mean Heathrow Express would come under the NRCoC and thus be allowed for split ticketing and perhaps travelcard validity?

 

[Clip]

Apologies for not reading through all 331 posts if this has been said already. But would this presumably mean Heathrow Express would come under the NRCoC and thus be allowed for split ticketing and perhaps travelcard validity?

No as I understand it Hex will still deal with fare setting and such like but they'e just hivin off the running of it to GWR. So many posts so I may be wrong!

 

[abn444]

Apologies for not reading through all 331 posts if this has been said already. But would this presumably mean Heathrow Express would come under the NRCoC and thus be allowed for split ticketing and perhaps travelcard validity?

I doubt it, as far as I can tell, they'll still be Heathrow Express branded and Heathrow airport will still have control over the fares.

 

[transmanche]

Apologies for not reading through all 331 posts if this has been said already. But would this presumably mean Heathrow Express would come under the NRCoC and thus be allowed for split ticketing and perhaps travelcard validity?

I believe not. AFAIUI, GWR will merely be supplying stock and operating the trains (in much as same was as DRS might supply a loco and driver). Control of the operation will still rest with HAL.

 

[USBT]

Apologies for not reading through all 331 posts if this has been said already. But would this presumably mean Heathrow Express would come under the NRCoC and thus be allowed for split ticketing and perhaps travelcard validity?

GWR is taking over operations of the HEX trains under a management contract with HAL. HEX is not being folded into GWR or the GWML franchise. The only stipulation is that if the GWML franchise is awarded to someone else they will obliged to take over operation of the HEX under the same management contract.

As I see it this is a “holding contract” while everyone works out how to deal with (a) western and southern access, (b) Runway 3 and Heathrow’s redeveopment, and (c) HS2 and Old Oak Common. Each is dependent on the others. Ultimately the HEX could disappear, get folded into a franchise or have a franchise of its own.

What is clear is that HAL is ultimately getting out of the trains business, while getting assurances that the airport will continue to have the paths and services to/from Paddington, and more importantly get decent/expanded rail access as the airport expands.

 

[The Ham]

Just a random thought, if the Heathrow Services were to be formed into their own Franchise would there be an argument to include the Gatwick services from GWR as well given that the Southern Approach Trains would be calling at Guildford whilst the Western Approach Trains would be calling at Reading. As such it wouldn't be such a random thrust into another franchise area, as it would only be from Guildford to Gatwick rather than from Reading. As such it would be more geographically contained, whilst providing an extra route to spread the HQ costs over more passengers.

If electrification of the NDL were to be due, it could well be that the franchise could look to have a uniform fleet of duel voltage trains to run the services.

 

[Roger100]

Apparently the proposed HEX replacement depot will not be built at Langley after all. Instead, the GWR depot at Reading will be used for HEX instead.

 

[Domh245]

Apparently the proposed HEX replacement depot will not be built at Langley after all. Instead, the GWR depot at Reading will be used for HEX instead.

Yes, that was one of the key factors behind this whole situation, as explained by various insiders.

 

[swt_passenger]

Apparently the proposed HEX replacement depot will not be built at Langley after all. Instead, the GWR depot at Reading will be used for HEX instead.

Not just inside information as the previous post, but it was one of the key points made in the First group news release that was linked in the first post of this thread:
“As a result of this agreement, a new Heathrow Express Langley depot will no longer be needed. The depot would have been required to service trains because the HS2 building schedule requires HEx to vacate the Old Oak Common depot by the end of 2019.”

 

[317 forever]

This now means that we will have 387's on both Heathrow and Gatwick Express services.

Surprised to see the dedicated Class 332's leaving but I'm sure they'll find a new home, most probably with Northern

As well as 387s to Heathrow and Gatwick, we shall have similar 379s to Stansted Airport.

 

[swt_passenger]

As well as 387s to Heathrow and Gatwick, we shall have similar 379s to Stansted Airport.

For quite a short period before they are also replaced though.

 

[Mojo]

As well as 387s to Heathrow and Gatwick, we shall have similar 379s to Stansted Airport.

The 379s on Stansted Express are to be replaced next year with Class 745s (from the Stadler Flirt family).

 

[edwin_m]

But if the 379s end up on the Corby service they will probably be serving Luton Airport instead.

 

[Trailfinder]

In the latest edition of Modern Railways (July 2018), it is reported that Siemens ETCS equipment is to be installed in the GWR class 387s as a first in class design and fitment project.

However, this First in Class train will not be ready for service until early 2020.

As the GWR 387s have to replace the Heathrow Express class 332s prior to December 2019, and therefore require ETCS in order to operate in the Heathrow tunnels, how is this going to happen?

GWR ATP cannot be fitted to the class 387 and the tunnels do not have TPWS+ and of course the TfL Rail class 345s cannot currently operate in the tunnels due to the ETCS/ATP issues. Are there plans to install TPWS?

Has somebody got their dates wrong?

 

[leomartin125]

When is the official handover date for HEX transferring to GWR operation? I keep hearing August 2018, but nothing more specific...

 

[swt_passenger]

When is the official handover date for HEX transferring to GWR operation? I keep hearing August 2018, but nothing more specific...

It’s stated as “August 18” in the GWR press release linked in post #1. If you want the actual day of the week I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet. Why would it need to be, it isn’t exactly a “customer facing” change, it will still be HEx as now as far as the public see it. RTT is showing HX as far as it goes...

 

[leomartin125]

It’s stated as “August 18” in the GWR press release linked in post #1. If you want the actual day of the week I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet. Why would it need to be, it isn’t exactly a “customer facing” change, it will still be HEx as now as far as the public see it. RTT is showing HX as far as it goes...

I know it wouldn't be mentioned, I just wanted to know for my own personal use.

 

[The_Engineer]

In the latest edition of Modern Railways (July 2018), it is reported that Siemens ETCS equipment is to be installed in the GWR class 387s as a first in class design and fitment project.

However, this First in Class train will not be ready for service until early 2020.

As the GWR 387s have to replace the Heathrow Express class 332s prior to December 2019, and therefore require ETCS in order to operate in the Heathrow tunnels, how is this going to happen?

GWR ATP cannot be fitted to the class 387 and the tunnels do not have TPWS+ and of course the TfL Rail class 345s cannot currently operate in the tunnels due to the ETCS/ATP issues. Are there plans to install TPWS?

Has somebody got their dates wrong?

The August Modern Railways (page 73) has a different set of dates!

1. ECTS in the Heathrow tunnels is now installed and proven by the Class 313 test train.
2. Class 345s soon will replace Class 360s, once the 345s have their ECTS equipment approval .
3. 12 Class 387s are being modified by Bombardier at Ilford for ECTS and Heathrow interiors, ready for August 2019 when the Class 332s are withdrawn.
4. 19 Class 769s to be delivered in time (presumably before August 2019) to allow transfers of Class 387s to the Heathrow service, some of these 19 will replace the Class 387s on Paddington suburbans, with the others going onto North Downs services.

Class 769 remains an untested enigma. However, if push comes to shove, some of the Class 319 earmarked for Class 769 conversions could instead be used on straight AC mode from August 2019 to allow the Class 387s to transfer....

 

[PHILIPE]

The August Modern Railways (page 73) has a different set of dates!

1. ECTS in the Heathrow tunnels is now installed and proven by the Class 313 test train.
2. Class 345s soon will replace Class 360s, once the 345s have their ECTS equipment approval .
3. 12 Class 387s are being modified by Bombardier at Ilford for ECTS and Heathrow interiors, ready for August 2019 when the Class 332s are withdrawn.
4. 19 Class 769s to be delivered in time (presumably before August 2019) to allow transfers of Class 387s to the Heathrow service, some of these 19 will replace the Class 387s on Paddington suburbans, with the others going onto North Downs services.

Class 769 remains an untested enigma. However, if push comes to shove, some of the Class 319 earmarked for Class 769 conversions could instead be used on straight AC mode from August 2019 to allow the Class 387s to transfer....

The position regarding 769s is something of an enigma and covered in secrecy by Porterbrook. There could be corrosion issue also if you refer to the 769 thread.

 

[plcd1]

When is the official handover date for HEX transferring to GWR operation? I keep hearing August 2018, but nothing more specific...

Wild guess but most transfers take place at a financial year period end - i.e. when accounting and performance measurement periods change. The switch from period from 5 to 6 takes place on 19 August 2018. It just makes the financial arrangements easier to make changes on these dates.

 

[pdeaves]

Wild guess but most transfers take place at a financial year period end - i.e. when accounting and performance measurement periods change. The switch from period from 5 to 6 takes place on 19 August 2018. It just makes the financial arrangements easier to make changes on these dates.

A briefing suggests "as soon as practically possible this Autumn."

 

[paulravuslante]

Saw some Hex colleagues at Paddington yesterday. They said they were being issued with GWR uniforms already.

 

[Jpeg]

My GWR service stopped at the Hex platform 6 today at Paddington, never seen that happen before. Perhaps Hex has now officially been handed over and GWR trains can now stop there when they are late etc.?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40444/2018/08/17/advanced

 

[cactustwirly]

My GWR service stopped at the Hex platform 6 today at Paddington, never seen that happen before. Perhaps Hex has now officially been handed over and GWR trains can now stop there when they are late etc.?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40444/2018/08/17/advanced

No GWR have used them in the past, as they are technically all NR platforms.
They try and keep HEx to 6&7, but that doesn't mean that they are exclusively HEx's

 

[Mintona]

Recently saw the opposite, a 332 in Platform 8.

 

[paulravuslante]

Recently saw the opposite, a 332 in Platform 8.

Yes this happens when platforms 6 and 7 are closed temporarily.

 

[Flinn Reed]

With the Stansted Express 379s due to replaced soon and already configured for airport services, wouldn't it be easier to keep GWR's 387s on their intended routes and transfer the similar 379s for Heathrow Express services?

The 769s could even be used as a temporary measure if the 379s would not be available in time, before transferring to Wales or Northern.

 

[cactustwirly]

With the Stansted Express 379s due to replaced soon and already configured for airport services, wouldn't it be easier to keep GWR's 387s on their intended routes and transfer the similar 379s for Heathrow Express services?

The 769s could even be used as a temporary measure if the 379s would not be available in time, before transferring to Wales or Northern.

Apparently there isn't enough depot space for them, but there is for old decrepit 769s...

 

[swt_passenger]

With the Stansted Express 379s due to replaced soon and already configured for airport services, wouldn't it be easier to keep GWR's 387s on their intended routes and transfer the similar 379s for Heathrow Express services?

The 769s could even be used as a temporary measure if the 379s would not be available in time, before transferring to Wales or Northern.

Perhaps the 379s are already taken on for somewhere else?