Heathrow Express GWR Contract

[coppercapped]

They tried remote luggage check in at Paddington and Victoria and gave up after a few years. No doubt someone will know why it didn’t last.

To be sure that your luggage made the flight it had to be checked in at Paddington about two hours before the flight departure time. As HEx only took 15 minutes to get the the airport it was quicker to take your luggage with you and drop it off when you checked in.

 

[Siemens Staines]

The options are being worked out now but they don't involve other TOCs operating these services.

There really isn't a problem with 2 car Turbos long term if they are only serviced at RDG but maintained at SPM and cycle accordingly. But other solutions are also being looked at and, for the avoidance of any doubt, these do not involve 230 or 139 type stock. There are better options out there but I can't be more specific at the moment.

I was just thinking that if the current RHM restrictions still applied in the Thames Valley then it would be less desirable to have two micro fleets of 2 car Turbos. If this isn't going to pose a problem then that concern goes away.

I fully understand why you can't say more and I shall just have to wait and see

 

[Flinn Reed]

Why can't the Class 332's go directly to GWR along with the services, and be maintained at the same place as the 387s? No additional stock would be required, and no need to move the 387s away from their intended services. No need to refurbish the 387s to HX standards, which are almost brand new (cost wasted on applying livery to trains, seat covers, painting etc). Also does not make the relatively new 332s immediately redundant.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Why can't the Class 332's go directly to GWR along with the services, and be maintained at the same place as the 387s? No additional stock would be required, and no need to move the 387s away from their intended services. No need to refurbish the 387s to HX standards, which are almost brand new (cost wasted on applying livery to trains, seat covers, painting etc). Also does not make the relatively new 332s immediately redundant.

No room at Reading. That’s been the issue all along.

 

[Flinn Reed]

GWR will need space for whatever replaces the 387s (769s?), so the 387s could just move to where they would go

 

[Elecman]

The options are being worked out now but they don't involve other TOCs operating these services.

There really isn't a problem with 2 car Turbos long term if they are only serviced at RDG but maintained at SPM and cycle accordingly. But other solutions are also being looked at and, for the avoidance of any doubt, these do not involve 230 or 139 type stock. There are better options out there but I can't be more specific at the moment.

Yes any number of Northern 142s as they’ve only been politically banned from Northern !!

 

[swt_passenger]

GWR will need space for whatever replaces the 387s (769s?), so the 387s could just move to where they would go

The depot at Reading currently looks after the Turbos that are being replaced by the 769s. 387s cannot replace Turbos in non-wired routes, which is the whole point.

 

[cactustwirly]

But for a period of 12 months you'll have 769s, Turbos & 387s

 

[The Ham]

But for a period of 12 months you'll have 769s, Turbos & 387s

During that time some of the 387's will be off elsewhere being refurbished. It could also be that they could use the GWR depot at OOC as an overflow until such time as it closes. As once the stock levels are fixed the problem guess away.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The HEx Sidings at the Oak is currently planned to be the stabling overflow for the transitional year. The last remaining bit of the GWR depot, the 3 road HST shed, will have gone by then. It has to close in December 2018.

 

[Class455]

This now means that we will have 387's on both Heathrow and Gatwick Express services.

Surprised to see the dedicated Class 332's leaving but I'm sure they'll find a new home, most probably with Northern

 

[LunchSociety]

Why can't the Class 332's go directly to GWR along with the services, and be maintained at the same place as the 387s? No additional stock would be required, and no need to move the 387s away from their intended services. No need to refurbish the 387s to HX standards, which are almost brand new (cost wasted on applying livery to trains, seat covers, painting etc). Also does not make the relatively new 332s immediately redundant.

I believe the other issue is a conflict between signalling systems - the idea was for the Elizabeth Line class 345s to use ETCS on Heathrow services which the 332s do not have and cannot be economically retrofitted. The class 387s, I believe, were built with passive provisioning for ETCS and I gather this will form part of the intended mods to the 12 units to be used. AIUI the plan was originally for class 345s to use ETCS and the 332s to use the existing signalling but it has been reported that difficulties have been encountered trying to run both systems concurrently (I am sure someone else could provide more detail on this).

 

[rebmcr]

relatively new 332s

They are the oldest privatisation fleet!

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Rubbish - Thames Valley travellers are not so stuck up that they will not sit between two other people. After all, they've been doing it for the last 25 years.

Hmmm, maybe. I’m on a Cotswold Line turbo at the moment. Eight standees in the vestibule and yet the middle seats in the 2x3 section are empty.

 

[paulravuslante]

Hmmm, maybe. I’m on a Cotswold Line turbo at the moment. Eight standees in the vestibule and yet the middle seats in the 2x3 section are empty.

That’s the Cotswolds though...try getting on a peak time departure to / from Paddington! All seats usually occupied and you wouldn’t be able to count the number of standees packed in...

 

[jayiscupid]

To be sure that your luggage made the flight it had to be checked in at Paddington about two hours before the flight departure time. As HEx only took 15 minutes to get the the airport it was quicker to take your luggage with you and drop it off when you checked in.

That's the same as Hong Kong but the benefit is you can check your luggage in up to 24 hours before departure.
When I was living there it meant I could go to the station in the centre of Hong Kong at 8am, check in for my flight, drop my luggage off and collect my boarding pass. I'd then head to the office for a full day have dinner and drinks with friends and then catch the airport express arriving at the airport 60 mins before take off (the train runs every 10 minutes and takes 24 mins from Central to the Airport). It's a fantastic service for less than GPB10 that is very well used, the 7 car trains (the 8th coach is a baggage car) are fairly busy all through the day. It's much faster and cheaper than a cab if you're heading to Kowloon or Hong Kong.

I guess with Paddington not being as centrally located as Hong Kong station perhaps it wasn't as much benefit?

 

[coppercapped]

That's the same as Hong Kong but the benefit is you can check your luggage in up to 24 hours before departure.
When I was living there it meant I could go to the station in the centre of Hong Kong at 8am, check in for my flight, drop my luggage off and collect my boarding pass. I'd then head to the office for a full day have dinner and drinks with friends and then catch the airport express arriving at the airport 60 mins before take off (the train runs every 10 minutes and takes 24 mins from Central to the Airport). It's a fantastic service for less than GPB10 that is very well used, the 7 car trains (the 8th coach is a baggage car) are fairly busy all through the day. It's much faster and cheaper than a cab if you're heading to Kowloon or Hong Kong.

I guess with Paddington not being as centrally located as Hong Kong station perhaps it wasn't as much benefit?

That is quite possible, but there may have been some other limitations such as not being able to check luggage in more than a given number of hours before the flight. At this distance in time I can't remember for certain although at the time I was living and working on the continent and I seem to remember on a couple of occasions checking my luggage in at Paddington around lunch time, having a afternoon meeting in London and taking HEx out to Heathrow at about seven in the evening. Very civilised it was too...!

 

[E_Reeves]

Is anything happening to the North Pole depot?

 

[FGW_DID]

Is anything happening to the North Pole depot?

I presume N. Pole is unaffected by the works as its the other side of the GWML.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I presume N. Pole is unaffected by the works as its the other side of the GWML.

That's correct - isn't that why it was chosen to be the London end IET depot?

 

[MarkyT]

That's correct - isn't that why it was chosen to be the London end IET depot?

No doubt, and with the added benefit it was vacant so could be adapted and brought into use while the old HST facility on the other side of the GWML was still in operation.

 

[swt_passenger]

Surprised to see the dedicated Class 332's leaving but I'm sure they'll find a new home, most probably with Northern

There are plenty of reasons why they won’t easily find a new home given in the rolling stock forum thread about future uses of 332s...

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-use-of-class-332s-post-hex.162532/

 

[317 forever]

I remain to be convinced as to the 769s suitability as Turbo replacements - particularly on the steep gradients of the North Downs. They also won’t be able to replace the Cotswold unit, Marlow and Greenford branches. So Reading will *still* need Turbos.

Crossrail will ultimately release 22-24 387s; once you account for the Hayes, Readings, the Maidenhead peak extras, changes to the Didcot locals and so on. Ample to account for future capacity increases, Newburys, possibly even the Henley and Windsor branches. Now while it wouldn’t enable a 2nd Turbo cascade; a temporary, short-term small fleet of AC EMUs to release the 12 387s for HEX conversion would be all that’s required. Something readily available, and similar to GW’s existing fleet would be ideal. Much easier to train maintenance staff and drivers on something similar to what you already have, than a wholly new type. Now if only there was a fleet of AC Networkers in storage somewhere....

At present we have 6 387s between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington at Mon-Sat off-peak times. I wonder how many there will be once CrossRail is fully operational in December 2019?

 

[swt_passenger]

At present we have 6 387s between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington at Mon-Sat off-peak times. I wonder how many there will be once CrossRail is fully operational in December 2019?

2 tph finish next month, when TfL rail take over with 345s.
AIUI another 2 tph off peak finish in Dec 2019 if not earlier, leaving 2 tph GWR services in the off peak only. Crossrail will run 4 tph to Reading in the peak, and that won’t leave any capacity for GWR in the reliefs in the peaks.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

At present we have 6 387s between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington at Mon-Sat off-peak times.

It's four units on the shuttle isn't it? Two eight car diagrams?

 

[swt_passenger]

It's four units on the shuttle isn't it? Two eight car diagrams?

I took the question’s 6 to mean the 2 terminating and 4 through services at Hayes each hour but appreciate other interpretations are possible...

 

[317 forever]

2 tph finish next month, when TfL rail take over with 345s.
AIUI another 2 tph off peak finish in Dec 2019 if not earlier, leaving 2 tph GWR services in the off peak only. Crossrail will run 4 tph to Reading in the peak, and that won’t leave any capacity for GWR in the reliefs in the peaks.

Thank you for letting me know. I gather these 2tph that remain will be the Didcot trains.

I enjoyed my 387 ride from Reading to Paddington 2 weeks ago. Regrettably there were only 2tph instead of 6 due to engineering works affecting some lines to and from Paddington.

It's four units on the shuttle isn't it? Two eight car diagrams?

Sorry, I meant trains per hour rather than numbers of diagrams or units.

 

[hassaanhc]

Thank you for letting me know. I gather these 2tph that remain will be the Didcot trains.

I enjoyed my 387 ride from Reading to Paddington 2 weeks ago. Regrettably there were only 2tph instead of 6 due to engineering works affecting some lines to and from Paddington.



Sorry, I meant trains per hour rather than numbers of diagrams or units.

Should be 8tph off peak Monday to Saturday:
2 x Didcot Parkway
2 x Reading
2 x GWR Hayes & Harlington bay
2 x Heathrow Connect

 

[swt_passenger]

Should be 8tph off peak Monday to Saturday:
2 x Didcot Parkway
2 x Reading
2 x GWR Hayes & Harlington bay
2 x Heathrow Connect

The original question in post #323 was only about asking 387s only though...

 

[cactustwirly]

Should be 8tph off peak Monday to Saturday:
2 x Didcot Parkway
2 x Reading
2 x GWR Hayes & Harlington bay
2 x Heathrow Connect

In the peak it's:

2tph Hayes shuttle
2tph Reading stopper (all shacks after Southall)
2tph Reading semi fast (fast to Slough, then Burnham, Maidenhead, Twyford & Reading)
2tph Didcot fast (fast to Maidenhead via the main lines, then onto the reliefs for Twyford, Reading and stations to Didcot)