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Heathrow Southern Link proposals

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randompixel

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At the same time they're still talking about High Level light rail between Staines and Heathrow moving ahead: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/staines-light-rail-link-heathrow-16599865 - I assume that'd be an alternative to any Guildford or Basingstoke through services?

SBC [Spelthorn Borough Council] announced on Monday, July 15 it had been selected as an “official Innovation Partner” to the Heathrow Expansion Programme.

It hopes the plans will improve local transport and reduce congestion.

Cllr John Boughtflower, Spelthorne’s cabinet lead on Heathrow expansion, said: “It is very positive that Heathrow Airport seem to be recognising the potential of light rail in terms of providing quick, cost-effective and sustainable infrastructure”.

SLR is designed to link Heathrow with the South Western train network at Staines station from a new elevated station which will link to the existing Staines main line station.

It will run alongside the existing rail track (Windsor line) and the A30 before turning north and running immediately alongside the eastern side of the M25.

It is proposed there is an intermediate station at Hithermoor Parkway (in Spelthorne) with a final stop at T5.

Spelthorne will source funding with Heathrow Airport contributing infrastructure to connect the SLR into the airport.
 
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kevin_roche

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camflyer

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At the same time they're still talking about High Level light rail between Staines and Heathrow moving ahead: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/staines-light-rail-link-heathrow-16599865 - I assume that'd be an alternative to any Guildford or Basingstoke through services?

Got to love local stories like this where "moves a step closer" means "a feasibility study will be done" and nothing is really happening.

And while a new direct bus service from Guildford to Heathrow is good news (and should have been done 20 years ago) it is hardly going to revolutionise travel in the Heathrow area.
 

Bald Rick

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I’m still chuckling at the latest quote from the WLR. “We’re going through the RNEP process instead”.

Not unless it’s got funding and a viable business case!
 

swt_passenger

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I’m still chuckling at the latest quote from the WLR. “We’re going through the RNEP process instead”.

Not unless it’s got funding and a viable business case!
It’s a shame there seems to be no-one from the professional rail industry able to put these Windsor proposals out of their misery once and for all...
 

Bald Rick

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It’s a shame there seems to be no-one from the professional rail industry able to put these Windsor proposals out of their misery once and for all...

I’m sure they have. But it is a zombie project. You can’t stop someone talking to the press.
 

The Ham

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This would be a great disappointment to most people in Surrey and Hampshire if it stopped the link to to Woking being built.

Indeed, especially given that such a link could provide a connection to Old Oak Common.
 

Rational Plan

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But why? I'm sure we've lots of people here who have travelled to Heathrow. And Gatwick. But hands up anybody here who ever needed to travel between Heathrow and Gatwick.
Well that idea wasn't about linking heathrow to Gatwick alone. It was about linking three trip attractors along one route so that you could justify enough long distance trains from the North at a decent frequency.
 

The Ham

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Well that idea wasn't about linking heathrow to Gatwick alone. It was about linking three trip attractors along one route so that you could justify enough long distance trains from the North at a decent frequency.

I can certainly see the advantage for those who live along the route of a link between airports or in the general area of either airport in that they could turn left for one or turn right for the other depending on which airport better suited their needs.

I know of at least one person who has flown out of Heathrow and back to Gatwick as it allowed them to have a better flight time, as they were needing a taxi to get there it made little difference to the cost. However living between Portsmouth and Guildford, they could have used the train if a viable service had existed (at least in one direction) to reduce their costs.
 

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MarkyT

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https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...thern-access-to-heathrow-strategic-objectives
Guidance
Southern Access to Heathrow:
strategic objectives
Published 4 November 2019

Introduction
A new Southern Access to Heathrow (SAtH) programme would make getting to Heathrow Airport quicker and easier for millions of travellers across the south of England, with proposed links between Central London, Surrey, Hampshire and the airport. More accessible and convenient transport links will greatly reduce road traffic and congestion locally, enabling greener journeys to and from the airport and between local communities. Quicker and easier journeys to Heathrow will create regeneration opportunities and will make Britain a more attractive place to invest and connect UK exporters to new international markets.

The scheme previously known as ‘SRLtH (Southern Rail Link to Heathrow)’ has been renamed ‘SAtH (Southern Access to Heathrow)’ to reflect the mode agnostic approach taken through the development stages of the scheme so far and encompass modes other than just heavy rail. While we anticipate that heavy rail will be a vital component of this project, there are other mode options and interventions such as light rail, guided busways and emerging technologies such as maglev and autonomous pods that could be blended with heavy rail to enable the realisation of wider opportunities and benefits.
 

kevin_roche

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In case you are interested there is a response from HSR to the DfT paper.

https://heathrowrail.com/guidance-r...hrow-faces-not-being-completed-prior-to-2030/

Heathrow Southern Railway Limited (HSRL) – the independent venture set up to transform the rail network serving Britain’s busiest airport – has welcomed publication by the UK Department for Transport (DfT) of its Strategic Objectives for Southern Access to Heathrow (SAtH). However, HSRL is concerned that the Government does not expect a new railway to be completed prior to 2030.

HSRL Chief Executive Graham Cross said:
“We believe our scheme meets the DfT’s Strategic Objectives.
Whilst their publication is welcome in showing the case for a new link, they no longer contain the certainty that this should be a conventional railway. Injecting uncertainty by considering experimental transport technologies largely untested in the real world will delay the commencement of this vital new public transport link.

There is also a report on Graham Cross' comments on the New Civil Engineer website.

The Department for Transport is displaying a "lack of urgency" in its approach towards southern access to Heathrow despite releasing strategic objectives for the scheme, a bidder for the project has said.

I also believe that both western and southern access to Heathrow is urgent.

I think both these links should be built before Heathrow is allowed to build another runway.
 

kevin_roche

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Ian Visits has an item about the DfT paper:

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/11/21/new-rail-link-to-heathrow-faces-delays/

The government report is now more ambiguous about how it will improve public transport from Surrey to Heathrow and is essentially leaving open the potential for something other than a conventional railway.

There was a proposal from the local council for a tram service. This would not help most of the people in Hampshire or Surrey. Hopefully they won't choose that.
 

Chester1

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Ian Visits has an item about the DfT paper:

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/11/21/new-rail-link-to-heathrow-faces-delays/



There was a proposal from the local council for a tram service. This would not help most of the people in Hampshire or Surrey. Hopefully they won't choose that.

I guess it depends on what the goal is. If its simply to reduce congestion and emissions from Heathrow then a tram line targeted at workers would do it. Manchester Airport Metrolink line was built primarily to get local residents to jobs in city centre, at the airport and nearby. However, I can't see how it would be sufficient basis for a new tram network.
 

Bald Rick

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Ian Visits has an item about the DfT paper:

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/11/21/new-rail-link-to-heathrow-faces-delays/

There was a proposal from the local council for a tram service. This would not help most of the people in Hampshire or Surrey. Hopefully they won't choose that.

I think it’s slightly uncharitable to say that the project has been ‘delayed’. To my knowledge there have been no opening dates confirmed in this process, so nothing it can be measured against as being ‘late’.

Also it’s worth pointing out that HSLs suggestion that they could have the line open by 2026 would have to be placed firmly in the domain of ‘hopelessly optimistic’
 

matt_world2004

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A heavy rail network would be the best option it allows the greatest use of capacity on this section of line, it also allows more integration with existing railway lines and allows the greatest flexibility in terms of service pattern
 

kevin_roche

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I see that Heathrow Expansion has been delayed by the CAA.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...unway-construction-by-three-years-19-12-2019/

Heathrow has taken the decision to push back the completion of the third runway from 2026 to “early 2028 or late 2029”.

It comes as the aviation watchdog published its determination on early construction costs and timings for the expansion programme.

In its determination the CAA ruled that Heathrow’s timeline should be adjusted to allow for the Planning Inspectorate to rule on its development consent order (DCO) application.

Hopefully there is time to build the Southern Link before the M25 is dug up.
 

packermac

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Got to love local stories like this where "moves a step closer" means "a feasibility study will be done" and nothing is really happening.

And while a new direct bus service from Guildford to Heathrow is good news (and should have been done 20 years ago) it is hardly going to revolutionise travel in the Heathrow area.
That would be the bus I eventually passed heading up the A3 the other day that was sat in a queue to get on (a moving) M25. It took me over 25 minutes to pass the queue due to people trying to cut in late from the A3 lanes, so a good chance the bus had been in the queue to get on the M25 for 40 minutes. God knows what happens when the M25 is at a standstill.
 

camflyer

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No chance. Southern Link opening is at least a decade away, if at all. Western link is 8 years off and that’s much further forward in the planning process.

Is the Western Link really still 8 years away? I though that the planning/approval was well advanced and that it was a relatively simple and non-controversial project.

I'd agree that the Southern Link is many years away though it probably delivers more value than the Western Link
 

Class 170101

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Is the Western Link really still 8 years away? I though that the planning/approval was well advanced and that it was a relatively simple and non-controversial project.

I'd agree that the Southern Link is many years away though it probably delivers more value than the Western Link

Despite the 8 years suggested for Western link I'd suggest its probably a decade way allowing for construction delays (aka Crossrail style).

I'd also be inclined to agree that the Southern link has more value than the Western Link depending upon where it serves beyond said link.
 

Bald Rick

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Is the Western Link really still 8 years away? I though that the planning/approval was well advanced and that it was a relatively simple and non-controversial project.

I'd agree that the Southern Link is many years away though it probably delivers more value than the Western Link

Yes. 2028, as stated on NRs website:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/western-rail-link-to-heathrow/

The Development Consent Order has yet to be submitted. That’s around a 2 year process for a job of this scale. Construction is fairly lengthy - there’s tunnelling to do and of course it goes into an active airport. And an enormous grade separated junction on the GWML.
 

kevin_roche

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There are a couple of stories on the New Civil Engineer web site that may of interest. Though they are disappointing.

Heathrow wants additional £1.5bn for rail links

The first plan would allow Heathrow’s third runway to open in 2028. The second would bring the runway into service in 2029.

HAL claims the first delivery schedule can still be delivered within the original £14bn price tag given in 2014.

The second, more expensive schedule involves spending an additional £3bn over the first 15 years including investing £750M each in western and southern rail links.

Under this proposal a western rail link would be completed in the mid-2020s ahead of the third runway opening, with a southern link scheduled to be completed in the mid-2030s.

The plan states: “We are working with DfT to create new airport rail links. A Western Rail link to Reading would allow passengers to travel to the airport from the South Coast, South West, South Wales and West Midlands without going into London.

“In the 2030s a Southern Rail link connecting the South West and Waterloo to Heathrow is also planned.”

It adds: “We assume building Western Rail in both options, but our contribution varies. Investment in any Southern Rail Link also varies by option.”

Both delivery schedules include improving road links to the airport, including creating two new junctions on the M25 as well as constructing a Southern Road Tunnel which would connect the airport’s central terminal with M25 traffic travelling from the south.

Changes to the airport’s infrastructure including car parks and access roads are also included as part of both delivery schedules.

Heathrow Southern Railway boss slams airport’s ‘unambitious’ delivery plan

Stokes told New Civil Engineer that he was “very disappointed” by HAL’s delivery schedule which proposes opening a southern rail link to Heathrow in the mid-2030s.

Heathrow Southern Railway is a privately financed proposal for a southern rail link to Heathrow Airport and connects into High Speed 2 at Old Oak Common and runs through to Waterloo via Clapham Junction.

Stokes comments come after HAL revealed two potential delivery schedules for expansion as part of its Initial Business Plan that it submitted to the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) last week.

More roads seem to be the priority as usual but in the meantime they are still going to disrupt the M25 for years without delivering an alternative.
 

goldenarrow

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No surprises there that Western Rail Access is higher up the list of priorities given the volumes of traffic already originating from the West Country and the wider South West.

HSR can rant and rave all they want, what HAL have set out is more deliverable in the current economic/political climate.
 

camflyer

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No surprises there that Western Rail Access is higher up the list of priorities given the volumes of traffic already originating from the West Country and the wider South West.

HSR can rant and rave all they want, what HAL have set out is more deliverable in the current economic/political climate.

WRAL is a "higher priority" as the scheme is much more advanced in planning and approval though long term the Southern Link has the potential to deliver much greater benefits. There is no chance of Heathrow meeting future CO2 and traffic reduction targets without it.
 

Bald Rick

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Interesting to see that HSR Ltd has a new ‘boss’. Presumably the old one has left, which also presumably means the money has run out (or nearly so).
 

cle

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Direct links to Reading and Clapham Junction cover a huge area and journey possibilities - with Woking and Guildford also offering good catchment in themselves (even though as interchanges, Reading and Clapham cover most of their same places).
 

pacenotes

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These rail links are more for the staff that work at the airport rather than passengers. Most car parks they are going to get rid of due to the 3rd runway are staff car parks.
 
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