"Heathrow Undergd" and the Routeing Guide

[tsr]

Just a fairly brief but hopefully interesting series of questions here... I also hope it doesn't make me look stupid!

If you hold a ticket to/from "Heathrow Undergd", what is the relevant Routeing Point for said origin/destination? As this is no doubt meant to refer to the Piccadilly Line stations, would this be "LONDON"?

Is there anything to prohibit transfer between the Piccadilly Line and Heathrow Connect/Express within the Heathrow area, therefore entering the National Rail network at Hayes & Harlington - in which case, could that also be a Routeing Point? I'm guessing there is probably no orthodox reason why that should be assumed to be permitted, but your views, please!

If one were to analyse a ticket to/from Heathrow Terminals 1/2/3, 4 or 5, those are listed in the Routeing Guide, and presumably imply the HX/HC stations, but "Heathrow Undergd" strictly speaking matches none of these!

 

[455driver]

I would read it as a ticket valid to Heathrow Underground (LU), not to any station at Heathrow which happens to be under the ground.

 

[bb21]

It is equivalent to a ticket issued to Zone U1256 Londn I believe and priced as such.

 

[tsr]

I would read it as a ticket valid to Heathrow Underground (LU), not to any station at Heathrow which happens to be under the ground.

I agree, but I guess you could use it just on a Tube journey within Heathrow, and then on HX/HC from there.

It is equivalent to a ticket issued to Zone U1256 Londn I believe and priced as such.

That would make sense. However, what is the procedure for determining which zone boundary stations the passenger should or should not pass when leaving London, given also it would be possible to join a non-Underground/NR network service immediately after a Tube journey at Heathrow, thus reaching the NR network at Hayes & Harlington? As we know, the route from Hayes & Harlington to Heathrow is very often not considered to be part of the Travelcard area or the National Rail network, even if some point-to-point tickets issued from NR stations are valid.

In other words, if the Tube was only used immediately between Heathrow Terminals, then a service was boarded to Hayes & Harlington, what would be the permitted routes from then onwards? Those from London or from H&H?

 

[LexyBoy]

However, what is the procedure for determining which zone boundary stations the passenger should or should not pass when leaving London

There isn't one I think. Common sense and "reasonable routes" applies hock:

This is another example: the destination is U1256 but the routeing is Via Ealing Common/West Acton. Obviously intended for changing at Ealing Broadway, but I don't know any reason it's not valid via London Terminals (subject to the routeing still being complied with).

As we know, the route from Hayes & Harlington to Heathrow is very often not considered to be part of the Travelcard area or the National Rail network, even if some point-to-point tickets issued from NR stations are valid.

It is definitely not part of the travelcard area. It would generally be considered part of the National Rail network I think, since standard ticketing arrangements apply - I get your point though, as the line is not owned by Network Rail nor is any operator part of ATOC.

 

[tsr]

There isn't one I think. Common sense and "reasonable routes" applies hock:

In this day and age, it does seem a bit of a risk to take. Common sense, whilst shown by the vast majority of railway staff, cannot be relied upon, especially when it comes to negotiating what may be deemed reasonable by a passenger!

It is definitely not part of the travelcard area.

Yes, sorry - I should have phrased my sentence better!

It would generally be considered part of the National Rail network I think, since standard ticketing arrangements apply - I get your point though, as the line is not owned by Network Rail nor is any operator part of ATOC.

Then again, the Tube in general is subject to through ticketing and other arrangements, but that most certainly is not part of the National Rail network! Also, isn't the National Rail branding, including the "arrows of indecision", owned and licensed by ATOC? Or am I misremembering that?

 

[bb21]

Don't forget that the NRCoC, and hence the Routing Guide, do not apply to Heathrow Express or the section between the airport and Hayes & Harlington of Heathrow Connect.

I don't think there is a definitive answer to your questions, however the talk of "permitted routes" as defined by the NRCoC is unlikely to mean very much in the context of services operated by these two entities.