Help- Being Prosecuted by TFL

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by J4u4u2c, 19 Dec 2019.

  1. J4u4u2c

    J4u4u2c Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2019
    Location:
    London
    Hi all,

    I have recently received a letter from TFL of Single Justice Procedure Notice.

    I have 1 charge- On XX date I have entered a ticket area without having a valid ticket.

    Charge 1- "That you, on XX date at XX station, did enter a compulsory ticket area without having with you a valid ticket. Contrary too Bylaw 17(1) of Transport For London Railway Bylaws made under paragraph 26 of schedule 11 to the Greater London Authority Act 1999 and confirmed under section 67 of the Transport act 1962"

    My initial correspondent with TFL when they sent me a letter home I agreed to causing an offence (as i got caught by ticket inspector) despite my mitigating circumstance as I am an individual who is dyslexic, dyspraxic and suffer from visual stress- so mistakenly picked up my brothers freedom pass which they didnt accept.

    I now received a court summons saying my options. I wanted to know the following:

    1. I know if i plead guilty I will get a criminal record but i read somewhere as its bylaw it wont be recordable thus not showing up on my CRB/ enhanced CRB check but will show up in PNC- is this true?
    2. Is there any way I can plead guilty and avoid criminal record even if i have a good plea in my defence?
    3. Will I have to let my employers know even if its non recordable criminal record?
    4. I also look after my parent who are elderly so getting a criminal record will mean I potentially lose my job - so will be hard for me to look after them without any financial stability.
    5. Should I hire a solicitor to fight for me (I have been quoted £750 by the solicitor) to take on my case.
    6. Do you know anyone who had something similar and what was the outcome or if you read it anywhere.
    7. Even though it says Charge 1- and only 1 date of where they are charging me for- i did use it on more date which they didnt mention- will/ can they charge me for them too.

    I look forward to hearing from you all.

    Many thanks,

    Jay
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,941
    Joined:
    28 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    Based on what you've quoted, yes. It will show on a check of the PNC but should not show on a basic DBS check.
    See above.
    That depends on your employment contract. As a general rule it is better to tell them something that you didn't need to than it is to fail to tell them something that you should have.
    See 1 above.
    Based on what you've quoted and your description of the event then I'd say no as it's a strict liability offence - either you had a valid ticket or you didn't.
    Have a search through the Disputes and Prosecutions section.
    Based on what you've posted, it doesn't appear so.
     
  4. J4u4u2c

    J4u4u2c Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2019
    Location:
    London
    @najaB - Thank you ever so much for responding back.

    Do you know if I can contact the Solicitor incharge of directly dealing with my case to settle out of court so this doesnt go, or is it too late now?
     
  5. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,941
    Joined:
    28 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    You can do, but TfL are less likely to settle than assume other TOCs.
     
  6. Skymonster

    Skymonster Member

    Messages:
    720
    Joined:
    7 Feb 2012
    This topic would get more traction / feedback in the Disputes and Prosecutions part of the forum. Perhaps a mod will move it or the OP repost it there.
     
  7. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,941
    Joined:
    28 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    Already requested. :)
     
  8. JBuchananGB

    JBuchananGB Member

    Messages:
    433
    Joined:
    30 Jan 2017
    Location:
    Southport
    These statements are incompatible. You didn't mistakenly pick up your brother's freedom pass, you were in the habit of using it.

    You would be best to say as little as possible about your circumstances, just admit your guilt for the one occasion, take the penalty and move on. And do not continue to use anyone else's tickets, buy your own.
     
  9. some bloke

    some bloke Member

    Messages:
    859
    Joined:
    12 Feb 2017
    A byelaw offence shouldn't normally be entered on the PNC.
     
  10. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

    Messages:
    3,299
    Joined:
    18 Nov 2009
    Yes, this was my understanding too. It is declarable for 12 months: if you are asked about any unspent convictions then you must declare it. But it should not appear in the PNC.
     
  11. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

    Messages:
    3,299
    Joined:
    18 Nov 2009
    If your workplace has a union, they should be able to provide you confidential advice specific to your job
     
  12. Islineclear3_1

    Islineclear3_1 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,713
    Joined:
    24 Apr 2014
    Location:
    PTSO or platform depending on the weather
    Can you tell us what you mean by "visual stress"?

    I presume you used a freedom pass that you were not entitled to use. I hope you understand that this is a very serious offence.

    I'm not sure how you could use dyslexia and "visual stress" as a sound defence

    You can possibly try and avoid the court hearing going ahead or if that fails, that the court are lenient.
     
  13. some bloke

    some bloke Member

    Messages:
    859
    Joined:
    12 Feb 2017
    He's charged with a less serious offence.
     
  14. Islineclear3_1

    Islineclear3_1 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,713
    Joined:
    24 Apr 2014
    Location:
    PTSO or platform depending on the weather
    My apologies, in that case the OP is very lucky in this regard...
     
  15. 30907

    30907 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,004
    Joined:
    30 Sep 2012
    Location:
    Airedale
    From previous threads on misuse of Freedom Passes, it seems that TFL tend to prosecute for a single offence under the Byelaws; this is simple to prove, and I assume they think is enough of a deterrent.
    @J4u4u2c I am assuming that you do not have a Freedom Pass of your own - if you do, your conditions may offer some sort of defence.
     
  16. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,941
    Joined:
    28 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    And it seems a reasonable way to deal with a first instance of low-level misuse.
     
  17. daveshah

    daveshah Member

    Messages:
    108
    Joined:
    1 Sep 2018

    As someone else with dyspraxia, I imagine the "visual stress" is problems with controlling the eye muscles making tracking/convergence harder; combined with general visual perceptive issues it can make seeing small things correctly at a glance (eg when leaving in a rush) harder. Dyspraxia does also tend to cause general carelessness/clumsiness so I could see myself quite easily in the same boat. Whilst I would hope that TfL or a court would see this as at least partial mitigation; I'm not sure how likely this is to be in reality.
     
  18. Islineclear3_1

    Islineclear3_1 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,713
    Joined:
    24 Apr 2014
    Location:
    PTSO or platform depending on the weather
    Very unlikely IMHO

    Whilst I sympathise with the OP, or anyone with a SpLD, anyone could "claim" to have a hidden disability to get out of taking responsibility for their inadvertent actions.
     
  19. J4u4u2c

    J4u4u2c Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2019
    Location:
    London
    Thank you all, i just wanted to know with the charge against me will this be a recordable criminal record- will my employer know? Will this appear on CRB/ enhanced CRB check? Can someone help?
     
  20. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,496
    Joined:
    5 Nov 2014
    Were you caught on a tram, LO, DLR or TfL rail train because the inspectors of these are actually private companies who are more likely to settle.
     
  21. J4u4u2c

    J4u4u2c Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2019
    Location:
    London
    I was caught on TFL underground, i dont think they want to settle.
     
  22. J4u4u2c

    J4u4u2c Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2019
    Location:
    London
    Any help?
     
  23. island

    island Established Member

    Messages:
    10,493
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2010
    Location:
    0036
    This was already answered in najaB’s post last Thursday.

    There are no such things as CRB checks any more, but if procedure is followed correctly convictions for the offence of being in a CTA without a ticket should not appear at all on basic or standard DBS checks and may appear on enhanced DBS checks.

    This does not affect any duty you may have to declare criminal convictions to current or prospective employers. The conviction, should you get one, will ordinarily become spent after one year.
     
  24. J4u4u2c

    J4u4u2c Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2019
    Location:
    London
    Sorry i don’t understand- do I have to let my employer know, and by spent do you mean it will come off after a year?
     
  25. J4u4u2c

    J4u4u2c Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2019
    Location:
    London
    Finally, if I plead guilty at court but in my defence If i can justify why the criminal record will affect my career etc, does the judge have the power not to give me a criminal record, or will this criminal record be given by default and the judge doesnt have the power to overturn it and perhaps just give me a fine?
     
  26. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,941
    Joined:
    28 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    We cannot answer that. It depends on your conditions of employment. I'll say again though, you are (generally speaking) better off disclosing something that you didn't need to than you would be if you failed to disclose something that you should have.
    A spent conviction will not show on a basic DBS check, correct.
    I think you misunderstand what the term "criminal record" means. A fine isn't an alternative to a record. If you are found guilty of a recordable offence then it will appear on a DBS check regardless of what sentence is imposed - be it fine, discharge or a term of incarceration.
     
  27. 30907

    30907 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,004
    Joined:
    30 Sep 2012
    Location:
    Airedale
    Let me underline: a single offence of dishonesty, which is what you have been charged with, is unlikely to have any impact on your career or on your presnt employment.
     
  28. island

    island Established Member

    Messages:
    10,493
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2010
    Location:
    0036
    If you plead guilty of a recordable offence, you will get a criminal record. This is not a matter of discretion.

    (I am assuming we are dealing with England or Wales.)
     
  29. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham On Moderation

    Messages:
    4,502
    Joined:
    23 Mar 2013
    Location:
    Powys
    If your contract says that you are required to inform them of any prosecution, then yes you do. Also if applying for a job and the question is asked you have to answer in the affermative.
     
  30. 30907

    30907 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,004
    Joined:
    30 Sep 2012
    Location:
    Airedale
    True, but in post #1 the OP refers to a Byelaw offence.
     
  31. some bloke

    some bloke Member

    Messages:
    859
    Joined:
    12 Feb 2017
    To clarify in view of a post above: you are not charged with an offence of dishonesty.
     

Share This Page