Help IRCAS appeal Rejected

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angelwhitea1

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23 Jul 2012
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Hello everyone, I am new here and need some help and advice urgently. Below are the details of my nightmare that strarted when I began my journey at Dagenham Heathway:

I touched in at Dagenham Heathway and was headed for Cross Harbour DLR station. I took the train to Barking then took the C2C to Limehouse where I touched in and out to go on the DLR to Cross Harbour, just before getting to Canary Wharf, I had been trying to get hold of my daughter who should have been back from school, in my panic I got off the train and kept trying and in my distress I touched the oyster scanner on the platform:oops: and after the phone call I topped up and proceeded to the next station Heron Quays to continue my journey (while I was on the phone I had walked away from the DLR Canary Wharf Platform and was now in the Jubilee Line ticketing area, where I topped up, Heron Quays is closer to this area than going back to Canary Wharf DLR).
I did not touch in at Heron Quays as I was continuing my journey which would not have completed until I got to Crossharbour station.

However I was stopped at Crossharbour - my destination by the DLR fare inspector outside the station before I had a chance to touch out, I explained to her that I had touched a scanner by mistake at Canary Wharf she said she understood and explained that the scanner I had touched had assumed my journey had ended and I should appeal because and that she had to write the ticket anyway because her ticket reader machine had read the ticket.

My appeal was also due to the fact that the time issued on the penalty fare notice is 16:25 issued at Cross Harbour station; however my Oyster card records place me at Limehouse station at of 16:30 (which is about 20 minutes away). Therefore, it is impossible for me to have been given a penalty fare notice for being at Cross Harbour at this time, and for that reason think the penalty fare notice is invalid. TBH I am not quite sure when it was issued but it was sometime after 5pm.

I got a standard rejection of appeal letter today from IAS and have now been asked to pay £40 in 14 days, as well that I can also lodge a second appeal with another department, what I would like help with is wether I can appeal using the wrong timing as well?

I look forward to receiving some advice and comments soon. Thank you.

Angel

Mods' note: the final outcome was that the Penalty Fare was refunded
 
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Monty

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12 Jun 2012
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I'd pay it if I were you, it may work out to be cheaper and less stressful in the long run. I know it's not nice and reading the events of the day in question it sounded like it were rather hellish. In the grand scheme of things £40 is not a large sum of money compared to what you would have to pay should you loose your case in court. Which may be the next stage if you do not pay within the 14 days, I imagine IRCAS have rejected your appeal as the PFN was issued legitimately and have no way of checking your Oyster touch in/touch out data.

However, you are quite right the according to the notice, it was issued before you touched out. So if you were to argue your case with TfL's prosecutions department they may drop the matter. Failing any of the above I seriously consider seeking legal advice.
 

angelwhitea1

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23 Jul 2012
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Hi Monty

Thanks for your comments. I did send the details of my Oyster with my appeal, but as I have noticed from other forums they do not seem to look at any appeal details in the first instance - they just send out a standard letter of rejection. Apart from not being able to touch out, I am also certain that the time on the Penalty Fare Notice makes it INVALID as my oyster records can confirm I was no where there at that time.

I would write to them today and see what happens. I have less than 10 days as they count from the day the letter was written which was 20th July (I rec'd it 23rd July). Just wondering what would happen if I pay. Would I still get a refund?

Thanks.
 

island

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Welcome to the forum and thanks for coming. You're in the right place and we'll do our best to help you out. Please however (a) don't send any further communication to IRCAS or anyone else about this for at least a few days, as you might inadvertently get yourself in further trouble, or (b) take negatively anything we are about to post; we may challenge elements of your story so that the full details can be established, but this is to help you, not to accuse you of anything.

By the "Jubilee Line ticketing area" do you mean the ticket office for the Underground station? That seems a bit of an odd place to go if you were heading for Crossharbour. Why didn't you touch in at Heron Quays having touched out and ended your journey at Canary Wharf? Were you within the red line at Crossharbour when you were stopped by the inspector? If not, had you passed the Oyster validators? Did you proceed to touch out anyway?

It does appear on first glance that the penalty fare notice is invalid due to having the wrong time, but if you word any appeal letter badly you may end up incriminating yourself rather than having the notice cancelled.
 

hluraven

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4 Apr 2012
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131
I got a standard rejection of appeal letter today from IAS and have now been asked to pay £40 in 14 days, as well that I can also lodge a second appeal with another department, what I would like help with is wether I can appeal using the wrong timing as well?

Angel

If you are not happy with the IRCAS response you can also raise your appeal with London TravelWatch who will intervene on your behalf. You should do this if you are not happy with the second appeal as LTW only intervene once IRCAS have concluded their portion of the appeal.
 

angelwhitea1

New Member
Joined
23 Jul 2012
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Island, thanks for your response. I understand the PF guys also patrol this site? A bit worried about that. I will PM you later.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If you are not happy with the IRCAS response you can also raise your appeal with London TravelWatch who will intervene on your behalf. You should do this if you are not happy with the second appeal as LTW only intervene once IRCAS have concluded their portion of the appeal.

Thanks Hluraven. I will be following on with the appeal to the other relevant departments including the London TravelWatch. I will keep you posted..
 
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