Help me get some Northern coverage (now with added trip reports)!

Discussion in 'Trip Planning & Reports' started by CallySleeper, 25 Apr 2015.

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  1. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    Thanks to Northern's recent day ranger promo, I thought I would take the opportunity to blitz some of the red on my coverage map. As you can see, there's quite a lot in the Manchester and Merseyside areas as well as less so in North Yorkshire.

    My task for you guys is, starting from Nottingham, and using Northern Rail only (or as much as possible), how would you plan to tackle it in a day (or two)? What would you attempt and especially in the Manchester/Liverpool areas how much might be done in the space of a day? Rough itineraries would be fantastic.

    Bonus points if you can get me to Carlisle and back in a day via the Cumbrian Coast!

    Any thoughts/advice much appreciated :)
     
  2. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    Is it only valid after 0930?
     
  3. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    08.45 Monday - Friday. So I'd be looking to get the 09.15 Nottingham - Leeds service initially.
     
  4. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Interested in how you produced the coverage map please.
     
  5. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    This is for a Saturday and involves a OP return Notts to Sheffield at £13.50 and is an extremely long day but gets the S&C and Cumbrian in and 4 hours in Carlisle
     

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  6. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17849

    Too long for me unfortunately. I'd be aiming to travel on a weekday i.e. start on the 09.15 Sheffield train.
     
  7. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    How about the following?

    Nottingham 1017 - Leeds 1217
    Leeds 1314 - Lancaster 1516
    Lancaster 1533 - Carlisle 1910
    Carlisle 1917 - Glasgow Central 2139

    Stay a night in Glasgow and get an AP back the following day. That should help clear some of your coverage map too.

    Alternatively buy an AP for the following day to Carlisle (plentiful supply of cheap ones on Virgin) and carry on from there on Northern via the Settle & Carlisle.
     
  8. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    Nice plan, however, I'm 99% sure the Carlisle - Glasgow leg counts as a ScotRail service.

    My point about the Cambrian coast is to be honest something which I don't believe can realistically be done in a day. On that basis I wish to focus more on a smaller area eg centred around Manchester or Leeds.
     
  9. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I believe Northern staff passes are accepted as it is advertised on booking engines as a Northern service, but for obvious reasons this journey is only possible in one direction.

    The template is here.
     
  10. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    Looking at your map I'd consider
    Notts to Wakefield K
    Wakefield K to Huddersfield
    Huddersfield to Halifax
    Halifax to Man Vic
    Man Vic to Southport
    Southport to Wigan
    Wigan to Kirkby
    Kirkby to Ormskirk (Merseyrail £4.90 single change at Sandhills)
    Ormskirk to Preston
    Preston to Blackburn
    Blackburn to Man Vic
    Walk to Man Pic
    Man Pic to Sheffield
    Sheffield to Notts
     
  11. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    Thanks Adam, extensive but unfortunately a little too ambitious - it's a 00.30 return, if all the connections work out. That said I could work with at least the Wakefield - Man V legs.

    What would be good (but not a necessity) would be if I was able to connect back into the 19.05 ex Leeds/20.05 ex Sheffield to Nottingham as my last train.
     
  12. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    I would suggest you follow Adam's scheme as far as Man Vic - Southport, then one of these options:

    1. (a) Southport - Liverpool (purchase single ticket).
    (b) Liverpool Lime St. - Earlestown - Manchester (Vic. or Picc,)
    then as Adam's list to Sheffield / Nottingham.

    or,
    2. (a) Southport - Wigan Wallgate; cross road to North Western
    (b) Wigan (North Western) - Liverpool Lime St
    then as option 1.

    or,
    3.
    (a) As 2 to Wigan.
    (b) Wigan - Kirkby
    (c) Kirkby - Liverpool (purchase single)
    then as option 1.
     
  13. Techniquest

    Techniquest Veteran Member

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    I've just had a look at your map, and while it would be brilliant if you could achieve filling in those rather large gaps in the Merseyside area I think that might be pushing it when intending to start with the 0915 from Nottingham and aiming to be on the 1905 home from Leeds. I can see why you want to be on that, as it'll be around if not more than 12 hours on the bash by the time you get back to Nottingham.

    I've not got timetables in front of me, if you've got time to look it all up might I suggest something along the lines of:

    Nottingham to Sheffield
    Sheffield to Huddersfield*
    Huddersfield to Manchester Victoria*
    Manchester Victoria to Leeds via Brighouse* (this should be every hour, xx13 off Victoria or Leeds IIRC)
    Leeds to Ilkley*
    Ilkley to Bradford Forster Square*
    Bradford Forster Square to Saltaire*
    Saltaire to Leeds
    By now time must be getting on towards pre-evening, so position yourself for the highlight of the day, the 17xx Leeds to Goole* (PSUL move)
    Should be time for a brief interlude (based on my moves up there on my 14 day ALR in 2012) of about 15 minutes before:
    Goole to Brough*
    Approx 10 minute wait for:
    Brough to Doncaster*
    Doncaster to Sheffield
    Sheffield to Nottingham

    * = Sectors of plan where new track will be scored.

    Yes I know some of it can be done on West Yorkshire Day Rovers.

    Alternative plans involve spending time between arriving into Manchester Victoria and heading back to Leeds for the 1905 home by doing:

    Walk across town (not too hard a walk to be honest!) or pay £1.10 at current prices for a City Zone single on Metrolink to Piccadilly
    Manchester Piccadilly to Buxton* (nice and scenic route even on a less than sunny day)
    Buxton to Stockport
    Stockport to Wilmslow* (looks like you've got a tiny bit of red track there on your map!)
    Wilmslow to Manchester Piccadilly
    Trek back to Victoria (only 20-25 minutes by my past experience, and there's no uphill walking in this direction)
    Manchester Victoria to Leeds via the Calder Valley and Brighouse* (at least hourly in both directions, xx13 off Victoria comes to mind but not 100%)(very nice and scenic run, even on a less than sunny day)

    You'll be back in Leeds with plenty of time to spare by my calculations. Not as much filled in on the map, but some very nice routes done and some really fiddly gaps out of the way. If you don't fancy Buxton, swap it out for a run to Chester via Northwich*. It's not as scenic but still it would fill a rather large gap!

    I can see that getting the Cumbrian Coast done would be a massive boost for you, and to be honest getting that, Settle Junction to Carnforth and Hest Bank to Heysham Port should be high up the list (you can probably tell I'm re-examing your map several times here! :lol:) for both very difficult track with Heysham Port and for the nicely scenic run that the route via Giggleswick gives. I don't remember much of it from my one and only experience of that bit, having done it on 16th December 2006 on The Airean Raider, but I do remember it being worth doing.

    The problem I'm seeing here is that you have a LOT of coverage to go for across the Northern empire. You really need to do multiple days on this Northern offer to get it all done, even if it means a hotel move here and there. I wish you the best of luck in planning your day, but I do also recommend just going with the flow on the day itself. For example, arrive at Leeds, stare up at the departures boards and see what takes your fancy!
     
  14. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    Thanks for this guys.

    So the way I see it at the moment is, as has already been suggested, I need to do this over two or more days. So I think how I'll approach it is spend one day covering Yorkshire and at least another in the Manchester area.

    It appears that the side of the triangle from Normanton to Whitwood Jn isn't covered on weekdays but is on Saturdays, is that correct? If so I know I need to leave that to a Saturday. Otherwise I need the lines to Wakefield and Mirfield from Kirkgate.

    The 17xx from Leeds to Goole etc. sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately I think I miss the last Northern back from Sheffield by about 15 mins but I'm sure I can get a cheap EM advance for a couple quid. I don't think there's any other PSULs I can achieve during the day with Northern? Otherwise I'd aim to complete the Ilkley and Forster Sq - Saltaire lines and then see what time there is left, possibly the Colne branch. (Realistically, I'm not sure how much time even getting a bus to Colne would leave me). I think it would also just leave a couple of bits near Selby and Goole to do.

    - The two triangles east/west of Brighouse - how easy is it to complete them? I have two of the six 'sides' already.

    With regards to the Manchester area. I've earmarked the Stockport - Chester line for another trip. This means I'd try to complete: Stockport - Wilmslow, the Buxton, Rose Hill and Hadfield/Glossop branches and lines via Hyde and Reddish. e: plus possibly to Colne via Rochdale out/Stalybridge back, time permitting. I'd then probably try to return to Sheffield via Ashton-under-Lyne and Huddersfield. Unfortunately this probably still leaves a lot of lines in the Merseyside area for another day...
     
    Last edited: 27 Apr 2015
  15. Techniquest

    Techniquest Veteran Member

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    Lancashire Day Ranger will cover a lot of your required track over that way, although as it's been over 4 years since I did one in February 2012, I would advise checking the area it covers. Last I looked it was £21.50 and is actually very good value.

    Cheshire Day Ranger will clear up pretty much everything else in that area that you need. About £22 again but it covers an enormous area, reaching as far south as Whitchurch (Salop). I would again highly recommend checking that one out, as it could easily have changed since I last looked.

    I can't think of any other Northern PSUL moves off the top of my head, aside from the previously mentioned Goole run. Well there's the infamous Fridays Only Stockport to Stalybridge, not that it's much good to you with the 0845 time restriction. Oh, the limited Helsby to Ellesmere Port runs too.
     
  16. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

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    Helsby to Ellesmere Port on a Cheshire Day Ranger. Maybe aim for that semi-PSUL service from Sheffield to York via the Dearne Valley line which I don't think is covered by any of the day ranger tickets.

    (Unless you have already covered it)
     
  17. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    The direct line via Baghill I've already managed to bag fortunately, thanks. Though I see there's a curve from Sherburn to Selby I don't have?
     
  18. Techniquest

    Techniquest Veteran Member

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    xx55 off Selby (double check that one on RTT!) when I did it for that curve, there are apparently some non-stop York to Selby trains that go that way too, but if you do a train calling at Sherburn you can't exactly do Hambleton East Curve instead :lol:

    Worth pointing out I did my track around that area before RTT was created, otherwise I'd have not had that problem!
     
  19. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    Normanton to Whitwood Jcn is covered by the Leeds to Sheffield via Castleford stopper which runs everyday. The Wakefield to Mirfield section is the Wakefield to Huddersfield which runs everyday except Sunday xx:44 ish from Westgate xx:50 ish off Kirkgate. Now for the triangles
    Bradley Jcn to Heaton Lodge - any tpe goes that way and the 1 TPH Northern Huddersfield to Leeds via Dewsbury stopper xx:59 off Huddersfield xx:56 from Leed
    Bradley to Bradley Wood & Greetland to Dryclough Jcn - the Huddersfield to Leeds via Halifax and Bradford 1 TPH xx:52 from Hudds xx:35 from Leeds
    Bradley Wood to Heaton Lodge & Milner Royd to Greetland - the Man Vic/Calder Valles to Leeds via Dewsbury xx:26 from Both Man Vic and Leeds and the 4 Grand Centrals a day in each direction
    Dryclough Jcn to Milner Royd is covered on the Leeds to Man Vic/Blackpool Nth via Bradford xx:05/18/51 from Leeds
     
  20. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    Thanks for that Adam, I've got some timings (for the Leeds trip at least) now I just need to bring it all together...
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Another question. Alas, it seems there are not enough hours in the day!

    The itinerary I've come up with so far looks like this:

    Worksop 0914 - Sheffield 0947
    Sheffield 0950 - Wakefield K 1027
    Wakefield K 1031 - Pontefract MH 1049
    Pontefract MH 1057 - Wakefield K 1118
    ...then
    Leeds 1716 - Goole 1826
    Goole 1838 - Brough 1852
    Brough 1909 - Sheffield 2017

    In those six hours I've obviously got a choice and I fear I won't have time to complete everything.
    Wakefield Westgate - Kirkgate - Brighouse - Bradford I - Leeds would take 2:11.
    Leeds - Ilkley - Bradford FS - Crossflatts - Leeds would take 2:26 e: 2:14 in the other direction.
    Both of those are doable in the time (though I might like more than 45 mins in Leeds) however it does leave at least a few awkward bits of red,
    - Normanton - Whitwood Jn
    - Hebden Bridge - Huddersfield I'd aim to complete another day
    - The bit south of Selby
    - That Selby - Sherburn curve earmarked for another trip.
    - Any other bits I've missed.

    I'd like to plan this in such a way to minimise the amount of microgricing left if possible. I'd also like to plan it in such a way that any track left can be covered with the least possible cost/tickets.

    So, how would you fit the bits together? As I said it's a shame there aren't enough hours in the day.

    Thanks again for the feedback.
     
    Last edited: 29 Apr 2015
  21. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Metrolink city zone single is now £1.20, £1.50 return - bloody inflation.
     
  22. Techniquest

    Techniquest Veteran Member

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    As that bit between Selby and Sherburn is not covered on a day ranger I'm aware, I'd go for that. Anything totally in the West Yorkshire Day Rover area can wait if you ask me!

    I haven't time for a full reply yet I'm afraid, I've got to motor on down the road for a train!
     
  23. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    Having done a bit more research this morning with fares and routes I'm quite happy I'll be able to cover this on a trip to York at a later date (albeit with a number of splits!) so I needn't worry about it for this trip at least. :)
     
  24. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

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    Selby to Sherburn is covered by the East Yorkshire Round Robin, useful ticket if you want to do a nice round trip from Hull to York, then to Scarborough and down the coast back to Hull.
     
  25. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    Yes, this was how I managed to spend an afternoon covering the 'circle', though I went direct from Selby to York and not through Sherburn on that occasion.
     
  26. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

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    Looking at RTT it appears the hourly Hull to York service (on a saturday) alternatives between going direct to York from Selby and going via Sherburn.

    Good luck with your day trip :)
     
  27. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    In addition to this, here is my proposed itinerary for my Manchester-ish trip:

    Worksop 0914 - Sheffield 0947
    Sheffield 1014 - Man P 1133
    Man P 1146 - Hadfield 1226
    Hadfield 1229 - Guide Br 1258
    Guide Br 1316 - Rose Hill 1335
    Rose Hill 1353 - Man P 1425
    Man P 1449 - Buxton 1547
    Buxton 1629 - Salford Crescent 1737
    Salford Crescent 1742 - Huddersfield 1840
    Huddersfield 1918 - Sheffield 2035
    Sheffield 2041 - Nottingham 2128

    This route covers a lot of branch lines which are unfortunately time consuming but I wouldn't have reason to otherwise traverse. The route obviously does leave a lot of lines in the Merseyside and north Manchester areas eg the Rochdale line as well as bits not covered on my Leeds trip above.

    e: It also transpired that my map was wrong! Because I'd covered Euston - Manchester both ways via Crewe and Stoke on Virgin, I realised I can't have gone past Manchester Airport. So the line from the airport and Heald Green South Jn to Piccadilly is still uncovered.

    Your thoughts and feedback are again, much appreciated please :)
     
    Last edited: 30 Apr 2015
  28. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    Yesterday I managed to make my Manchester/Peaks trip. Report to follow...
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    So for my Manchester trip, this was the original plan:

    Worksop 0914 - Sheffield 0947
    Sheffield 1014 - Man P 1133
    Man P 1146 - Hadfield 1226
    Hadfield 1229 - Guide Br 1258
    Guide Br 1316 - Rose Hill 1335
    Rose Hill 1353 - Man P 1425
    Man P 1449 - Buxton 1547
    Buxton 1629 - Salford Crescent 1737
    Salford Crescent 1742 - Huddersfield 1840
    Huddersfield 1918 - Sheffield 2035
    Sheffield 2041 - Nottingham 2128

    I then decided late on to attempt to cover the Bolton - Hindley line and cover Huddersfield - Sheffield at a later date:

    Buxton 1629 - Bolton 1751
    Bolton 1817 - Hindley 1831
    Hindley 1839 - Man V 1913
    Transfer to Man P, then
    Man P 1943 - Notts 2128

    A metrolink transfer would have been nice but I was concerned that I would be able to make the connection at Victoria to leave enough time. I felt it might have been better to walk it (I walk quite fast).

    In the end however, I slept quite badly on Thursday night and while I was awake at 7am I didn't feel well enough to make it out of the house. I went back to sleep for a bit and when I woke at ~10.30 I felt a lot better and felt that I would try and give it a bash - and use my original plan as much as possible and not waste any money.

    The new plan then looked like this:

    Worksop 1315 - Sheffield 1347
    Sheffield 1414 - Man P 1533
    Man P 1546 - Hadfield 1627
    Hadfield 1630 - Guide Br 1650
    Guide Br 1658 - Rose Hill 1717
    Rose Hill 1723 - Man P 1753
    Man P 1943 - Nottingham 2128

    After getting to Worksop and a small lunch at the Railway Cafe (highly recommended) the Sheffield train was a 144, albeit with newish high-back seats. This was in contrast to the Hope Valley train which was a Pacer with actual bus seating! Not only this but the heavens opened as we hit the Peaks and the weather stayed miserable all afternoon. I'd covered the stretch as far as New Mills Central about ten years ago but after which I was on new ground.

    The Manchester - Hadfield train was a 323, a long time since I'd been on one but better than a Pacer. Fortunately we covered all three sides of the Dinting triangle. I bailed at Guide Bridge in order to catch the next Rose Hill train, to cover the line through Hyde and the Rose Hill branch itself. This was a 150 and quite busy on the outbound stretch. Again on arrival at Rose Hill I simply rode it straight back to Piccadilly. Especially with the weather as it was I must say this part of the world looked pretty unremarkable (a few quite tall viaducts though) but I'm glad that I've covered them since I can't think of any cause to in the future!

    At Piccadilly I had an hour and three quarters to kill before my EMT home. I didn't have time to cover Buxton (another day I'm sure) and I didn't fancy Hindley and back and risk my connection at Piccadilly. I remembered however that I still needed Piccadilly - Airport, and a quick search for Northern only put me on the 18.02 express out, a nice 319. After a loo trip and a gaze at the flight boards I simply caught the same 319 back to Piccadilly on the 18.40. That does of course leave the Airport 'avoiding' line still to cover.

    I got back to Piccadilly and I had considered a move to Oxford Road as seat choices can sometimes be better there than at Oxford Road. I wasn't sure about the connections and in the end decided against it, a good move in the end as I think I'd have missed my train. In the end it wasn't too busy.

    My EMT 158 was quite annoyingly slow back through the Hope Valley, it transpired that this train was the cause. I'd considered catching a Northern back to Sheffield using my pass as a way of saving a few ££ and in the end, probably glad I didn't!!

    All in all a productive day, as I say of getting lines covered I wouldn't otherwise have had reason to. Even with not feeling 100% in the morning and a late start I was still able to get quite a bit done fortunately and didn't waste any money spent on tickets! This was the first of a number of coverage 'bashes' planned for the next few weeks.
     
  29. Techniquest

    Techniquest Veteran Member

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    Not a bad result considering the delayed start! Agreed things like Rose Hill Marple aren't interesting bits to cover, but at least you've got it out of the way now. Certainly you covered it on better motive power than I had in 2005, a MerseyRail 142!

    The Manchester Airport avoiding line is probably easiest done on ATW on Sundays, the 0830 Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly is booked that way. Last stop of Wilmslow before Piccadilly, so not super expensive to get it. Either that or wait for diverted Liverpool services with Virgin, which normally get diverted after Crewe on occasions at weekends via Styal and Manchester. Of course, that was a long time before the newly electrified lines were available, so again I recommend the ATW move.
     
  30. CallySleeper

    CallySleeper Established Member

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    Thanks, yes I think that's technically a PSUL. I also need to get the Friday Stockport - Stalybridge at some point.
     
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