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Help please! Letter from Greater Anglia Prosecutions Unit

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oddisris

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I received a letter from the Greater Anglia Prosecutions Unit saying that I was questioned about the payment of a rail fare, all the evidence is being considered and that I can reply to the letter if I wish by writing on the back of it with any further comments about the incident.

I recently moved to the UK and I started travelling daily from Tottenham Hale to Ware using a zone 2-4 pass (Ware is outside that zone) based on what someone I knew told me I should do. At the time I thought the ticket was fine and I didn't tap at Ware because I didn't see any turnstiles so I thought I didn't have to. I did this for about a month. I had no idea how the transport system worked so I did it completely unintentionally even though I know I should have been better informed. I thought I was paying the right fare.

Now I received the letter and I was wondering how to answer. I want to get a settlement and pay for what I owe, I really want to avoid having to go to court. Any advice?

Thank you.
 
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30907

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First, welcome to the forum.

Can you confirm that your regular destination is Ware in Hertfordshire, and the person who advised you knew where that was?
Zone 2-4 is a slightly odd choice when Totteham Hale is in Zone 3.
You were very badly advised - or advised by someone who knew that you might be able to get away with not having the right ticket, and thought that was what you wanted.
It is also a pity that you didn't check the information you received with an official source like a website or the diagram maps on the platform.

However, that's irrelevant now. Your behaviour looks like a deliberate to avoid the fare, perhaps many times (don't answer on here!).
You should reply truthfully and briefly, admit that you were at fault, and that your action has cost the railway money. You can say that you were badly advised, but don't try for sympathy - they've read it all before. You should indicate, as you have done already, that you are willing to make amends.
Particularly if this is your first fare offence, you may be able to reach an out-of-court settlement. You must be prepared for that to be substantial - the cost of the fares you should have paid, 5 days a week, from the start date of the travelcard on your Oyster, plus an administrative fee.
Or you may be taken to the magistrates' court, but this isn't the end of the world..
 

Any_Permitted

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Now I received the letter and I was wondering how to answer. I want to get a settlement and pay for what I owe, I really want to avoid having to go to court. Any advice?

Thank you.

I agree with 30907. You should reply to the letter you have received and essentially tell them what you have told them here. You should buy the correct season ticket from Tottenham Hale to Ware (if this is your daily commute) and reply stating the following:

- You recently moved to the UK and were unaware exactly of how the fares system worked (make this a brief statement so it doesn’t seem like an excuse).

- You apologise for your mistake and understand that people paying the wrong fares costs the railway millions of pounds a year,

- You have learnt your lesson and bought the correct ticket (mention your season ticket if you bought one) and offer an out of court settlement. This is the fares between Tottenham Hale and Ware for the days you travelled with the zones 2-4 card, plus any administrative costs Greater Anglia have incurred in persuing this case.

Best of luck. Feel free to post a draft of your letter and we can check it for you.
 

30907

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I think I would wait for GA to suggest the sum - it's just possible, though unlikely, that they will treat it as a one-off, rather than a repeated offence.
 

Hadders

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Is the destination St Margarets (Hertfordshire), which is one station south of Ware? If so there is scope for confusion with St Margarets (London) which is in Zone 4.
 

oddisris

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Is the destination St Margarets (Hertfordshire), which is one station south of Ware? If so there is scope for confusion with St Margarets (London) which is in Zone 4.

No, it was actually Ware (Hertfordshire)

I think I would wait for GA to suggest the sum - it's just possible, though unlikely, that they will treat it as a one-off, rather than a repeated offence.

Sorry, if they treat it as a repeated offence does it mean I wouldn't be able to get a settlement? Thanks
 

some bloke

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Does the letter mention a specific allegation? You could upload a photo with identifying details removed.

What did you say to the staff member? Did you sign a statement?

Is there more that you can say about why, for several weeks, you didn't look at the map or know that Ware wasn't in Zone 4?

How long do you have to reply?
 

oddisris

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Does the letter mention a specific allegation? You could upload a photo with identifying details removed.

What did you say to the staff member? Did you sign a statement?

Is there more that you can say about why, for several weeks, you didn't look at the map or know that Ware wasn't in Zone 4?

How long do you have to reply?

He asked a few questions and I had to sign at the end. He asked me where did I take the train, which was my final destination, if I had any form of ticket, if I had done it intentionally, how long did I do it for, and I don't remember if anything else.

Not really, I guess I just trusted what they told me. I should have checked.

I have about one week left to answer.
 

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some bloke

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Thank you. You could count all the journeys so they can see how much you owe in fares - it might come across as helpful.

And maybe think whether there's anything more specific you can say briefly about two areas:
Why they should believe you didn't mean to avoid fares (defence; you are guilty of a lesser offence under the Railway Byelaws even without intent)
Why they should treat you lightly (mitigation)

For example, perhaps something relevant to not being familiar with the transport system (Arrived a few days before the first use? Never been to London before? Used to a particular aspect of a system in New York? Have only done that journey, because working long hours, not travelled around London in different zones?).

And perhaps be more specific than "someone I knew told me", while still being brief.

If you were cross-examining someone who gave your account, what would convince you they didn't intend to avoid a fare, and should be treated leniently on a lesser charge related to not having a valid ticket?
 
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Haywain

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Why they should believe you didn't mean to avoid fares (defence; you are guilty of a lesser offence under the Railway Byelaws even without intent)
I don't think this is a useful approach if seeking to settle out of court. The amount to settle will, almost certainly, be the same the same regardless of which charge is used. To my mind using such language in a letter could come across as being a bit of a smart alec.
 

some bloke

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The amount to settle will, almost certainly, be the same the same regardless of which charge is used.
They might be more inclined to settle in the first place if they are less sure he acted with intent. That might apply especially as he was asked how long he had been doing this.
To my mind using such language in a letter could come across as being a bit of a smart alec.
I'm not clear which language - "you are guilty..." is meant as information for @oddisris.
 

WesternLancer

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As mentioned above I would def be getting your ticketing in order now (even if you are not going to work due to covid-19 on as many days says) ie a legit season ticket for at least a reasonable period of time ahead for that journey, shows clear intent to abide by the rules going forward which whilst not getting you off shows you have 'learned your lesson'.
Good luck with solving this.

Maybe the person who gave you such poor advice can a) stop giving out such bad advice and b) help pay towards the penalty you will have to pay as a consequence of their advice....:rolleyes:
 

oddisris

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Hi everyone,

A while ago I posted about a letter I had received for an invalid ticket. I sent a reply and now I got a new letter, giving me the option to pay for a settlement and avoid having to go to court.

In the letter it says:

"To pay the balance please call our 24 hours Automated Payment Line on 0870 067 9997. Cheques/Postal orders are also accepted and should be made payale to IRCAS and sent to the address at the top right o this letter. Please include our reference number on the reverse"

I've been trying to call that number but when given the option to enter the reference number to be able to pay it says it's invalid. I've also requested to speak to an operator but no one answers. They need to receive my payment before 15th April otherwise it would result in legal proceedings. I only received the letter yesterday so now if I try to send a Postal order with all the bank holidays I don't think it will get there in time.

Has this happened to anyone? Any suggestions?

Thanks
 

WesternLancer

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Hi everyone,

A while ago I posted about a letter I had received for an invalid ticket. I sent a reply and now I got a new letter, giving me the option to pay for a settlement and avoid having to go to court.

In the letter it says:

"To pay the balance please call our 24 hours Automated Payment Line on 0870 067 9997. Cheques/Postal orders are also accepted and should be made payale to IRCAS and sent to the address at the top right o this letter. Please include our reference number on the reverse"

I've been trying to call that number but when given the option to enter the reference number to be able to pay it says it's invalid. I've also requested to speak to an operator but no one answers. They need to receive my payment before 15th April otherwise it would result in legal proceedings. I only received the letter yesterday so now if I try to send a Postal order with all the bank holidays I don't think it will get there in time.

Has this happened to anyone? Any suggestions?

Thanks
Annoying - no personal experience but if you send a postal order and send it 1st class (go to a post office) or gauranteed next day delivery it will get there in my view. You will have to pay more for this as you have to pay for a postal order and also for the postage that you need. Be sure to get a 'certificate of posting' and keep copies of all the docs the post office give you. Get it sent 'signed for'. C-19 virus means Royal Mail are not actually gauranteeing these services but I had to send important docs to a relative last week, used this service at a post office at 2pm and it was delivered 11.30am the next day, so if you get it in the system Thursday (before Friday bank holiday, or Saturday morning) I reckon it would be delivered saturday or Tuesday at the latest.
 

Hadders

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Go to a Post Office tomorrow and get a Postal Order. Send it by Special Delivery which offers a guaranteed next day delivery.

This costs £6.70 for guaranteed delivery by 1pm next day (now 9pm due to coronavirus restrictions) or £11.04 for guaranteed delivery on a Saturday.


https://www.royalmail.com/d8/coronavirus-changes-service
Changes to Special Delivery Guaranteed
Due to increased absence levels, we’ve reviewed our timed guarantees for Special Delivery Guaranteed by 9am and 1pm services and will make the following changes:

  • For items posted from Tuesday 31 March 2020 onwards, our guaranteed delivery for Special Delivery Guaranteed by 9.00am the next working day will change to by 12.00pm the next working day*.
  • Our guaranteed delivery for Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1.00pm will change to by 9.00pm the next working day*.
*existing postcode exceptions apply
 
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WesternLancer

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Go to a Post Office tomorrow and get a Postal Order. Send it by Special Delivery which offers a guaranteed next day delivery. Can't remember the exact cost but it's around £8 iirc.
Agreed. service I used last week was about £3 at post office for the postage so it may even be less that £8 depending on the level of gaurantee you want (arrival by 9am next day costs more for example, than arrival by 2pm which is what I plumped for)
 

Fawkes Cat

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If you cannot / will not go to the Post Office, then

- send your cheque by first class post
- email Greater Anglia to tell them what you have done. If you cannot find a specific email address for the prosecution unit, their general address seems to be [email protected]

Bear in mind that coronavirus is causing difficulties for everyone. So while it would be wrong for you to exploit this, the chances are that if you make payment, then even if it arrives late it will be accepted - Greater Anglia will know that the post isn't as efficient as it normally is. And a dated email telling them that you have posted your payment at least points towards you trying to co-operate with them.
 
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